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Lisa Lunn on genetic technologies in agriculture

In this podcast, Lisa Lunn, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor at Farmers Weekly about her Kellogg research into the use of genetic technologies in agriculture. Lisa’s research presents a balanced view that unpacks the challenges, and the opportunities genetic technologies offer the food and fibre sector.

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Episode Transcript

Bryan Gibson – Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’ve joined Rural Leaders’ Ideas That Grow podcast. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas that Grow is presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I’m Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly. With me on this week’s show is Lisa Lunn, who is a recent Kellogg scholar.

Lisa Lunn, 2024 Kellogg Scholar and Category Manager for Crop Protection at Farmlands:
LL: Hi, Bryan. Thanks for having me.

BG: Where are you speaking from?

LL: Currently in beautiful Morrinsville in the Waikato, where I’m based.

Lisa’s Journey and Passion for the Food and Fibre Sector

BG: Nice. Now, you work for Farmlands, is that right?

LL: Yes, I do. I’m the Category Manager for Crop Protection at Farmlands.

BG: That sounds like a big job.

LL: Yes, essentially, it’s looking after anything related to agrochemical with an agronomy focus across the country. Working in really close with our team of talented TFOs, our agronomists, and our supply chain team as well.

BG: What knowledge and education do you need to get that job?

LL: I went through Lincoln University and got an Agricultural Science Degree, and I spent quite a few years in the sector working in various technical sales roles. I’ve had pretty good on-the-ground experience around the industry. Then this opportunity came up to get into the merchandising team. On my side of things, I bring a bit of technical on-the-ground knowledge, in an incredibly supportive environment with a lot of resources to help on the category side of things as well.

BG: Was the food and fibre sector always going to be your career of choice?

LL: Yes, I think so. I grew up on a small farm in the North Waikato. I think I always lean towards science and agriculture. Heading down to Lincoln to get my qualification was a natural step – Just so passionate about the food and fibre sector. It’s obviously everything starts and stops the food we grow. I’m proud to be involved with a sector that puts food on people’s tables around the world every day. It’s a pretty exciting industry to be part of.

Genetic technologies and the Kellogg research report

BG: We know the food and fibre sector in general, and New Zealand has a few challenges ahead of it. One of them we’re grappling with at the moment is whether to relax the rules around genetic technologies. And your Kellogg’s scholarship report looked directly at that, didn’t it?

LL: Yes, I was part of Cohort 51 that kicked off about a year ago. At the time, it was being talked about, but obviously a lot more has happened in the past year since then. The coalition government proposed some rules, a rethink of the rules, I suppose, that govern the genetic technology space. My report looked into if a change were to happen, what do we need to understand, as a country ,to make sure that any changes implemented are sustainable and the best thing for the country and our export markets.

Kellogg research process and key findings

BG: How do you go about getting the information and putting it together?

LL: Every Kellogg report generally involves a literature review. There’s a fair bit out there on this topic. Genetic technologies are very prevalent overseas, so there’s plenty of information there, and there’s quite a bit of information as well as to how it may impact our export markets.

The other part of that was semi-structured interviews. I spoke to about 16 key stakeholders from across the industry and also environmentalist groups as well, to make sure it was balanced. I had some interviews, and analysed the data as to the main trends that came out of it.

BG: Can you tell us a little bit about what those trends were?

LL: I spoke to a number of stakeholders representing a lot of sectors throughout the primary industries, and environmental groups, to make sure it was a fair and balanced discussion. In the groups I spoke to, no one was outright against a change, but there was plenty of those that were for it, and a portion were supportive but proceed with caution.

There were definite trends there in that a lot of people did support a change, and then probably the main group was ‘proceed with caution’. It was, ‘have a look at what other countries have done, make sure there’s a very good national conversation had so that everyone’s brought up to speed and understand what it means for us as New Zealanders, what it means for our export markets’. All of these things, that if we are to do it, we’ve got to do it right. We’ve got to take our lead from other countries that have done it and who’s been successful and who hasn’t.

Legislation and Global Considerations

LL: There was a group of individuals that I spoke to that were a bit more, ‘let’s find out a bit more information before we can make a decision, and potentially, are there other areas we should be focusing on first?’

A big thing that came out of it was that there are a lot of uses of genetic technologies. One of them, that’s been heavily spoken about, is the ability to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. The group of respondents I spoke to were very clear on saying, ‘this is not a silver bullet’.

It has to be part of a holistic approach that means that we can use other technologies and other mechanisms to help reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. This isn’t just going to be a set and forget. We’ve got to look at the bigger picture and make sure we are using everything we can to make sure we’re hitting the targets we’ve set ourselves and doing the right thing to be sustainable farmers. It’s not something that’s just going to come in and solve all our problems overnight.

BG: The legislation we’re working to now was written in the mid ’90s, wasn’t it? Considering how far the science has moved, it’s definitely time to have another look at this.

LL: Yes, scientific consensus is that basically the technologies have moved faster than our legislation has. As you said, it was written a long time ago, the HSO Act, which governs the space. Initially, when it was written, genetic technologies was a lot more cisgenesis.

There was a lot more inter-species genetic transfer. Nowadays, it’s much more specific with CRISPR-Cas9, and those technologies. There’s also some cases where certain modifications that might happen in the market that’s been exported to, might not even be considered a genetic modification because it’s something that can occur in nature anyway. It’s about having clarity on the definitions and what our export markets would consider genetic modification or genetic gene-editing. And bringing that legislation up to date with the technology we have available to us these days.

BG: That’s the big thing. I think I often find in the correspondence I get on this, that some people think we can do this, so we should, whereas there’s a bigger discussion to have around what does that mean for other things outside of science in terms of society and the way we market ourselves to the world.

The Kellogg Experience and Future Outlook

BG: You mentioned trade agreements already. There are a lot of places who have different ideas what is acceptable or not. There’s a lot to get through, isn’t there?

LL: Absolutely. A lot of the competing nations in the agriculture space do use it, and in some areas it has given them an advantage. But we tend to trade on ‘clean green’ with the NZ Inc. image.

We need to be conscious of the fact that just because we can do it, it doesn’t mean we should. That’s an absolutely fair argument. There are a lot of very valid concerns out there. To name a few, it would be what impact is it going to have on our export market? There’s concerns around the corporate regulations around it.

There’s concerns about coexistence. Can an organic farmer still do what they want to do and be nearby to a farm that’s using GE products? I think it needs to be balanced. It needs to be fact-based.

I think you have valid concerns on both sides of the coin, and they need to be heard and understood and addressed. Some of the literature I read spoke to the fact that our export markets are probably more concerned with us moving in the right direction with our greenhouse gas emissions, water quality, animal husbandry, those things, even though we’re already very good.

But there were areas that, potentially, they’d like to see improvement, whereas in some markets, genetic technologies was less of a buying decision for them. But can we coexist? Can we still have the non-genetic technologies with farms operating alongside ones that choose to take up these technologies? The government has drafted a bill that’s already available for viewing and submissions.

It’s making sure that the discussions that are had our fact base, and it is an emotional topic. Hearing both sides of the coin and looking into what’s best for us as a country, as an agricultural export nation, and as New Zealand does as well, it goes beyond agriculture. Just understanding the technologies that may be available to us – what benefits are they going to bring?

BG: I understand the bill that’s been drafted is loosely based on the Australian system that they’ve got in train. Is that correct?

LL: Yes, it is.

BG: That there is some aligning with our close neighbours, is not a bad place to start, hopefully.

LL: Yes, absolutely. Just taking a lead on some of the nations that have done it and what their learnings have been and going more risk-based assessments as opposed to reviewing the individual technology itself, what’s the end product. They’re definitely taking a lead from Australia’s legislation.

A Transformative Leadership Experience

BG: Your report is out there. What was it like doing it? What was the Kellogg experience like for you?

LL: Fantastic, I absolutely loved it. I couldn’t recommend it more. I was very fortunate to be sponsored by Farmlands to do it. Farmlands are very generous with allowing me the time to head down and do the in-person courses. It was a lot of work putting the report together and doing the interviews, but the whole experience was absolutely incredible – The people you’re able to connect with both throughout the cohort.

The speakers that came to see us, conducting themselves under Chatham House rules meant they were just able to be so free and frank, and you could ask them questions you probably could never normally ask an industry leader or a CEO or a high-powered scientist or politician. You could be very open and transparent and learn whatever you needed to for your own personal development journey.

It was just absolutely unreal. The scope of people that were in the cohort, the knowledge they had, the questions they asked, just a wonderful cross-section of people from across the industry. The main thing we all had in common was we were passionate about the industry and the future of the sector.

BG: You mentioned it is personal development. What does the future look like for you?

LL: I touched on it before: Food and Fibre is my passion. I love being part of the sector, and I will always remain a part of the sector. I’m excited to be part of it here in New Zealand. It’s such a small industry. Everyone knows everyone. It’s a great thing. Everyone’s genuinely passionate to turn up to work every day.

I’ve been with Farmlands for about two and a half years now, so I’m really happy to get stuck in there and keep building on my role and working with a fantastic team I’m lucky to be a part of. Whatever I do, it’ll be involving the sector.

BG: For those out there who might be thinking about getting to work on something like the Kellogg programme, you’d recommend it?

LL: Absolutely. Rural leaders do a fantastic job of giving you all the resources you need, all the tools you need in your toolbox to become a better leader, to be more self-aware, to understand the skills you do have and the skills you could improve on.
The networks are astounding, and it gives you really good context for both internal
New Zealand-centric trends and aspects of the sector here, and also a really good handle on geopolitics and things that are happening overseas.

It helps you understand what trends may be emerging and how they could affect us here, as well as teaching us really good soft skills, like improving your critical thinking skills and time management and all sorts of things that come out of it.
Everything I gained from that is absolutely invaluable, and I’ll continue to use it in my career.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

You can read Lisa’s Kellogg Report ‘Understanding a future with genetic technologies in New Zealand agriculture’ here.

For more information on Rural Leaders, the Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarships, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, the Engage Programme, or the Value Chain Innovation Programme, please visit ruralleaders.co.nz

Hamish Murray podcast - Building stronger on-farm teams

Hamish Murray: Building stronger on-farm teams by getting out of the way.

In this podcast, Dave Nuku, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor at Farmers Weekly, on his work with Ngamanawa Incorporation and about how adopting a philosophy of Kaitiakitanga can be in alignment with a strong and profitable business.

Listen to the podcast here.

Bryan Gibson – Managing Editor of Farmer’s Weekly.
You’ve joined Rural Leaders’ Ideas That Grow podcast. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas that Grow is presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I’m Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly. This week, I’m talking to Dave Nuku. How’s it going?

Dave Nuku, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, Ngamanawa Incorporation.
DN: Hi, good Bryan and you?

BG: Going good, thank you. You’re one of the very recent Kellogg scholars. I understand your report has only just come out.

DN: I’ve had a fantastic experience with Kellogg. Just finished my report, so glad to have had that completed. Yeah, it’s good to be here with you today.

BG: Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from?

Bringing a global perspective to New Zealand food and fibre.

DN: I’m from the Bay of Plenty, up here in Tauranga, and have some strong whakapapa connections back here. My family have been here for a long time. I’m currently working for Ngamanawa Incorporation, managing a block of Māori land of around 4,000 hectares in the lower Kaimai.

BG: Awesome. I was born in Tauranga, so I know the place pretty well. Has most of your career been in the food and fibre sector, or is that something relatively new to you?

DN: To be completely honest, it’s very new to me. I do not have a background in the food and fibre sector. I actually spent two decades overseas working through Southeast Asia, Hong Kong, Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia. So I lived based in Malaysia, Hong Kong, and Singapore for several years in a completely different industry.

I was working for a multinational company over there running health clubs and resorts across Southeast Asia. So, it’s a big change from that perspective. I moved back home to Aotearoa a few years ago, just after COVID, and was fortunate enough to make a transition into the food and fibre sector with the Incorporation which our family have got long-standing connections with. It was a nice fit, but a very different industry – and all the differences that come with changing industries and countries.

BG: Yeah, that is quite a change, isn’t it? How did you find your time overseas? You’re obviously there a long time. environment.

DN: Absolutely loved being overseas, loved travel. My wife and I have got two kids as well, and so they were born overseas. So very much an international whanau. We did a lot of travel when the kids were young, and as they grew up. It was a constant part of our lives.

We were working in these different markets, so it was quite dynamic. Quite different to New Zealand. We were living in Malaysia and Singapore – so that’s closely connected to a lot of other countries, very easy to be mobile and get around. Businesses, languages, all of those things are very different, more nuanced, more complex than New Zealand in industries that we’re working at, but loved it. Absolutely loved it.

Having said all of that, it’s great to be home. I think Aotearoa, New Zealand is the best country on Earth and absolutely love living here, working here, and being home with my family.

BG: Tell me a little bit about the Incorporation you’re working for now.

Managing, leading, and stewardship.

DN: Yeah. So, Ngamanawa Incorporation has a large land block up in the lower Kaimai’s. Mainly the Incorporation has its roots in forestry. It’s around 2000 hectares of pine, radiata pine, and around 2000 hectares of native forest. In the native forest, we have a conservation team of five full-time Kaimahi or staff who are involved in our predator control efforts there.

We do everything from monitoring the waterways, the habitat for native species, whether it’s tuna/eels or kōkako, or kiwis. We have a lot of those really special native species up on the block. As well as forestry, we’re also involved in horticulture. We have a kiwifruit orchard with golden and green kiwi fruit in the Kaimai area, a little bit closer to Tauranga.

Then we also have some investments in other horticulture crops, strawberries on Matakana Island and some rocket apples in the Hawke’s Bay. So, quite a mix of different business interests across the Incorporation. It keeps you busy and it’s varied.

BG: Yeah, a lot of variation and diversity there. I guess there’s a lot of different farming techniques, business management, and you’ve got the native block as well, which is more of a conservation approach, I guess. A lot to keep on top of.

DN: I think it’s the variety and that diversity that makes it fascinating for me. I have a really strong international business background, but it’s nice to be doing something that is very, I suppose, organic and something working for an entity that we’ve got a long-standing connection to.

The block, the incorporation is made up of a number of different blocks of traditional Māori land, that has been in Māori ownership for hundreds of years. It’s nice to be taking that and really making sure that it’s productive in terms of our forestry, and then also in the indigenous forest space and the native bush, really looking at preserving the native species there.

We also have a lodge for our shareholders, so you can book the lodge and go up there and enjoy it with your family. It’s nice on a lake with lots of waterways in the middle of the bush.

It’s also about connecting people to land as well. Then the horticulture and the kiwifruit is really that’s a lot of the day-to-day operations. Long time between drinks in terms of the business model for forestry, but with Kiwifruit. They’ve got a more seasonal cash flow in business requirements and operations there.

BG: How are things tracking for you guys at the moment? Has it been a good year? Things looking pretty good?

DN: It’s been a fantastic year for kiwifruit in general across the Bay. It’s been something that the industry has really needed. We had a couple of rough years there with COVID, and there were a number of weather events.

Also, some of our growers down in the Hawke’s Bay area were really affected by cyclone Gabrielle. But overall, the industry has had a great season, a really strong crop. I think a record season, just under 200 million trays, which is around about a 25% increase on the previous highest year for Zespri overall, who sell our kiwifruit into market.

It’s been a record crop. Growers have really benefited from it. Last year’s growing conditions were excellent. Not only did we get good volume, but it also got really good fruit quality, which has held up well in the markets. We sell that through into Europe, China, and other places.

You’ve got to celebrate the wins, and we’ll take those because horticulture can be challenging. There’s always weather events, and you’re always on your toes, and no two seasons are the same. We’ll just take the win and then really focus on trying to do that again this season.

A background into how a Māori Land Incorporation works.

BG: Now, probably most of our listeners have a bit of an idea about how a Māori Incorporation functions and is structured. But could you just give us an overview of how that works?

DN: Absolutely. The Incorporation is governed by a committee of management. They function more or less like a board, I suppose, if you could think of it in that way, with some really small, subtle differences. But if you think of them as a board that are duly elected by the shareholders to represent the shareholder interests in the land block.

The Incorporation itself is an amalgamation of five different blocks in the lower Kaimai area that were all brought together just for the economies of scale that comes with a motivating all that land, which led to the 4,000 hectares that we currently have. Then what ends up happening is all of the owners in those individual land blocks more or less get shares in the Incorporation as opposed to a direct ownership in the land itself. That’s the governance structure and the ownership structure is more like a shareholding reporting into the committee of management.

The big difference between a Māori Land Incorporation versus a trust where the owners of the land still retained a slightly different ownership model. The Incorporation has been around for around 50 years and came together in the 1970s to amalgamate the land blocks to secure the land over the long term.

At that time, we were facing some challenges with the confiscation of land through the Public Works Act for the hydro scheme that’s currently up in the in the Kaimais. As I said, that was the origin story of the Incorporation. It’s come together as a result of that. We got into forestry and then have diversified over the years.

Kaitiakitanga – guardianship/stewardship. Adopting the long term view.

DN: So, generally speaking, Māori Land Incorporation, long term holders of assets in land, long term view, primary in nature, forestry, horticulture, looking to diversify. We have some other stocks and portfolio financial products. But everything we do isn’t really driven on a quarterly basis in terms of returns. It’s much more about where we want to be in 5, 10, 15, 20 years.

BG: That’s something that a lot of people are thinking about more and probably should think about more is having that longer term view of where you’re going. Because you’re right, that quarterly reporting makes you overegg the omelette in some ways.

You can drive production to meet targets and then have some issues to clean up afterwards. Whether a more measured approach with more long term targets seems to be a better way to take care of our land?

DN: I think so. That’s definitely our view on it. It’s more of the Kaitiakitanga view. Kaitiakitanga, meaning guardianship or stewardship. I’d describe it in that way – which was the subject of my report. What I wanted to do, having come back from extensive experience overseas in more international markets, where stewardship, guardianship, long term, intergenerational ownership, wasn’t really anything that I worked in overseas.

I worked for companies, many of whom were private equity owned. So, a different modus operandi, so to speak, a different timeframe, buying and selling companies, building them, selling them to the next person.

Coming back into this environment with a much more long term view, real care for land and nature, led me to study Kaitiakitanga, which is the subject of my Kellogg report. The concepts and all of the different influences, in fact, as they tie into Kaitiakitanga, I thought that would be a good way to educate myself and bring myself back up to speed so I can use that philosophy when managing the Incorporation assets and people.

Kellogg and Kaitiakitanga as a pathway to enduring prosperity.

BG: So, your report, as we said just out very recently, is called ‘Kaitiakitanga as a pathway to enduring prosperity’. I was interested that you kicked off by saying a lot of us have a simplistic view of what Kaitiakitanga is.

DN: Yeah, I think it’s most often thought about or used as a term in reference to guardianship or stewardship with regard to the natural environment. Whilst that is a part of Kaitiakitanga, that’s only a small component of Kaitiakitanga.

The broader application of Kaitiakitanga is the idea that one has a relationship not only with the environment, but also with your family members, also with everything within that environment. And with that, we call it Whanaungatanga or kinship. And with that kinship, our relationship, comes responsibilities. And the responsibilities that come from that, Whanaungatanga, or kinship, are responsibilities of care and Manaakitanga, looking after the environment, looking after others, looking after yourself, respecting the spiritual dimension that are imbued in all things.

We believe as Māori that things have a spirit, they have a Wairua, they have a Mana, they have a life force, or Mauri. Just acknowledging and respecting those things, particularly in the Taiao, but also one’s self. It’s a real all-encompassing philosophy in terms of how one can approach their life.

For me, in the way in which I think about it for the Incorporation. I see myself as a Kaitiaki of the assets that are within my responsibility, making sure that they’re not only produce good results, but they don’t do harm, whether it’s to the environment.

We look at things like forestry and our aspirations there to convert more of that into indigenous forests over time, perhaps retire parts of that. We also take the responsibility quite seriously and invest a lot into the conservation space, trapping possums, predators, to be able to restore some of the natural bird life on our block, to get the bird numbers up. To do that, you need to suppress the predators because they tend to kill all the chicks and the eggs and so on and so forth. That’s an example of Kaitiakitanga there.

Our team have rituals or practises that they use each day when they go out into the bush. They protect their Wairua or their Mauri. They’ll say special Karakia or incantations or prayers to protect themselves.

They’ll also ask for blessing and protection when they do the work in the bush. Then likewise, within the organisation itself, our philosophy is driven by Kaitiakitanga in terms of starting meetings with Karakia, with prayer, acknowledging people within the meeting or anyone who may have, for example, for us as Māori, in speaking back to that kinship and relationship connection.

We’ll also acknowledge those who may have passed on, their family connections and those within the region or the Mutu of Tauranga, the rohe of Tauranga will acknowledge them and do a Mihi to them and their family. So, all of these different practises that feed into Kaitiakitanga are all a part of the way you operate the way that you live and aspire to live.

Can you have alignment between Kaitiakitanga and propseprous business?

BG: As the title of your report suggests, Kaitiakitanga is not in opposition to having a prosperous and profitable business operation, is it? I mean, enduring prosperity, you can make a good living for all of your shareholders.

DN: Absolutely. That’s the aim. I suppose that was really what drew me to the subject they’re not opposing forces. One can be a good steward of the land, good steward of themselves and a guardian, and still prosper and have good economic returns, whether it’s for your shareholder, whether it’s for your Whanau or your business or whatever it is. Those are not things that are opposing their nature. I think that comes back to the long term view.

Then also considering in a broader sense what the return on an investment might be. An example of that would be we most often measure return on investment in dollar terms. Whilst that’s an important metric, it’s not the only metric. For example, we have businesses we’ve invested in, and they have a really good social return for our people.

It’s about unlocking the potential of some of our Māori land, by our people, for our people and creating employment opportunities. Like growing high-value horticulture crops. The case in point is the blueberry investment we’ve made. We know that that investment is not just about a hard and fast financial return. That is also about investing in capability and building skills in high value horticulture.

We can accept that for that type of investment that may carry a higher risk, so to speak. But we think the returns are going to be social in nature as well as ultimately a sustainable, profitable business. We’re prepared to take on a bit more risk because we can see that we measure success differently, so to speak. You have the right size that for your Incorporation in your business.

We’re not going to put all your eggs in that type of investment, but we do take a number of smaller investments that allow us to be more adventurous. Then as those businesses grow and perform, then we can scale them up knowing that they have a good return for our people, for our land, and then also from a financial or Putea perspective for our shareholders.

BG: Obviously, your report looks at this quite in-depth. You’ve looked at the literature, of course, and case studies. You’ve made some recommendations about how to incorporate more of a Kaitiakitanga mindset into a food and fibre of sector business. What are some of those?

Three recommendations to include Kaitiakitana principles into business.

DN: What came out of the report that I did were a series of recommendations that I think I did expect would be the outcome. They are, first and foremost for Māori entities where there’s an opportunity to include Kaitiakitana principles. Those are things like in the culture of the organisation, having Tūkanga, what we call Tūkanga or Māori protocols around the Karakia, Mihi, acknowledgement of people, those who have passed special occasions, opening meetings with Karakia, finishing meetings with Karakia, welcoming new guests into your office with Mihi and Whakatau. That would be one example of something that the Incorporation does.

Also, there are some tools out there that one can use to exercise the Kaitiakitanga in regards to waterways. There’s a really cool tool called the Mauri compass, which allows you to measure the habitat of certain wildlife, wild species. For example, the native silverbelly tuna (or eels) that we have here. We do a lot of work in that space. So, water quality, habitat cover, abundance of life within the waterways, et cetera. Creating benchmarks using the Mauri compass across those different areas. Then setting some goals based on that.

One of the other recommendations that came out of the report was the importance of really capturing Kaitiakitanga and incorporating it into what we call our SAIPO, our strategic investment priorities and objectives document that outlines how we invest in different things and incorporating Kaitiakitanga as a guiding principle. So, that one, we’re investing in things that we’re proud of, that we want to be in, that are going to be good for the Taiao and the environment as opposed to things that aren’t.

That we are also making investments for a certain portion of our asset base. We’re looking at that as a good financial return, but also a good social return as well. And so, we have the lens of Kaitiakitanga, that’s our perspective, and we look at different investments.

Those were the three recommendations, what you can do on a daily basis in your Incorporation to make it part of what you do. Two is, tools that you can use in the natural environment. Three is, how you can weave it into your governance structures or your investment structures so that you’re getting involved with things where you can exercise your Kaitiakitanga.

BG: I talk to a lot of people and do a lot of reading in my job running Farmers Weekly. It seems to me that there’s a lot in the Incorporation’s view of how to run things that everyone could learn whether they’re a family farm in Canterbury, or wherever they are.

It gives a story to someone about the weighing up all of the externalities and the balance sheets of what you’re doing in terms of sustainability, social responsibility, social licence to operate, profitability, that sort of thing. Is that something you think?

Kaitiakitanga - universal principles for a long term view.

DN: I think the principles are universal. I really do think they’re universal. We’re talking about them in a Māori context here, but these are principles that you find in many indigenous populations across the world. I think you’ll find them in non-indigenous populations as well.

Part of the research that I looked into, you’d see new concepts emerging, for example, in the US, around steward ownership models that are really very similar to Kaitiakitanga, where entities that are in the environmental space, in the education space, or the charitable space in the US. They have come up with certain corporate structures that allow them to separate the stewardship values as a separate and enduring part of the governance structure that oversees those companies.

Irrespective of who the owners might be, they’re still held accountable to those principles of stewardship, and that’s really aimed at enshrining those principles of guardianship over these different assets, more common in the environmental space. I suppose my point is that that’s an example of the same concept halfway across the world being implemented and enshrined in legislative corporate law. Because I think it’s a lot of people are wanting to do that.

I think there are a lot of entities out there that are saying, Hey, look, these are really good principles of long term view, not just measuring the bottom line from a dollar perspective, but also from a social perspective. I think that a more holistic view and long term view is better. I mean, anything, even from an investment perspective, if you invest in it for longer, it’s generally better. I think there’s a lot of principles that could apply to any business.

BG: I was reading just the other day about something that applies to the other end of the supply chain, NZ Story, which is part of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, did its most recent survey with Chinese consumers.

They found that after COVID, they were connecting more with their history and felt that New Zealanders, the fact that we embrace our indigenous culture and what we do more than some other colonised countries, was a point of difference for us. So, it’s an interesting thing to think about as well.

DN: I think we’ve got a great story. I think we’ve got the greatest country in the world. I really do. I think New Zealand is an incredible country. I think we do food and fibre really, really well. I hope there’s opportunities to lean into these indigenous narratives and concepts because they’re good for their environment, good for people.

That also sounds, as you’ve said, that they have a powerful resonance with other people abroad and other cultures. In typical New Zealand fashion, we’re probably too humble about it, quite modest. I think it’s okay to say, hey, look, these are things that we do really well. We do lean into it. That’s a part of our culture and our history, and we should be proud of.

The Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme.

BG:Now, how did you find the whole process of going through the Rural Leaders’ Kellogg Programme?

DN: I can absolutely say without any word of a lie or doubt that it was the best leadership programme that I’ve ever done. The most complete and thorough. The quality of the information from the presenters that you’re exposed to is really world-class.

We’ve got some of the best educators presenting content, a wide variety, too. People with military backgrounds, doctors, professors, politicians, farmers, horticulturalists, you name it. Te Ao Māori educators and specialists too. The broader array of leaders in all of these different fields and to be able to listen to them, to interact with them, to learn from them was just incredible.

It was a very, very special experience. Throughout that all, you’ve also got this report that you need to produce. You’re constantly taking in information from these presenters. You’re learning a lot from some of the best young minds, and probably I wouldn’t put myself in that, but more of a more mature vintage, shall we say myself. But they’re really, really great leaders in their own right who come in to do this course. You end up learning a lot from the people around you. That’s very motivating. Iron sharpens iron, so the whole experience has been exceptional.

If I was to say one thing to someone considering doing it, is to absolutely do it, go for it, but do not underestimate the amount of time it’s going to take you, and the focus and commitment that you’re going to need to get the most out of it. It’ll be worth it, but it’s a lot of great work.

You can read Dave’s Kellogg Report ‘Kaitiakitanga as a pathway to enduring prosperity’ here.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Hamish Murray: Building stronger on-farm teams by getting out of the way.

In this podcast, Esther Donkersloot, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor at Farmers Weekly, about her research with LIC on breeding heat tolerant cows.

Esther came to New Zealand to do her Masters’ thesis and never left. Good thing too. Having studied at the prestigious Wageningen University, she has steadily built a career looking into better genetic outcomes for our dairy herd – especially as the planet gets warmer.

Along with her research at LIC, Esther discusses her Kellogg report insights on genetics’ social licence to operate.

Listen to the podcast here.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I am Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, Bryan Gibson. This week, our special guest is Esther Donkersloot, who is a recent Kellogg Scholar and works with LIC. G’day Esther, how’s it going?

Esther Donkersloot, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, Scientist LIC.
ED: Yeah, really good thank you.

BG: I usually start these conversations by just getting a bit of life history, I guess. Now, you’ve come a long way to your life in New Zealand and your role at LIC.

The Netherlands’ loss, New Zealand’s gain.

ED: Yeah, this was an overseas experience for six months that turned out to be a bit of a life move to the other side of the world. So, my background is Dutch. I grew up in rural Netherlands, and I was always very interested in doing my master’s thesis somewhere else. Just by chance, I ended up in New Zealand with LIC, and have been here for 10 years now. So yeah, it’s been great.

BG: I understand you went to Wageningen, if I say that correctly.

ED: Yeah, it’s a tricky one. Wageningen University research centre. It was very close to home for me, probably about 20ks away from where I grew up. I I studied animal sciences there. Wageningen University is our main agricultural university in the Netherlands. It’s a highly regarded university, and it’s all around food, sustainability, and environment studies.

BG: Yeah, I used to work at Massey University, and they had a lot of partnerships with that university, and I always wanted to go and visit because it just sounded like an amazing place, that food valley environment.

ED: It’s an interesting place because it’s actually a very small town that the University is based in. So the town is the University, and it’s the combined effort of the University side as well as a big arm for research, which is a great environment to learn in. Definitely look back at it very fondly.

BG: So you came over here to do your master’s?

ED: To do my master’s thesis yeah. In our master’s, we had the opportunity to either do two thesis or to do a thesis inside an internship. I did two thesis. So, it took away the opportunity to learn outside of the University. I was still keen to get my main thesis done in a company somewhere else. By chance, my professor did his PhD with our head of research at LIC, Richard Spellman.

So, I ended up with the chance to do my (main) thesis over here in New Zealand with LIC, on gestation length. And then from there, I just enjoyed it so much that I rolled into a temporary contract, then a fixed-term contract. Now I’m well and truly settled in.

LIC research into heat stress in cattle.

BG: I understand your role here now is related to heat stress in cattle.

ED: Yes. I started my career with LIC in animal evaluation, and then had a little time in our international team. I got the opportunity to travel around a bit and learn a lot more about dairy around the world. I then came back to the research and development team to lead the Slick Heat Tolerant Breeding Programme, which I’ve been doing for the last six and a half years, alongside my colleagues. Nothing in research is ever an individual piece. It’s always a team effort.

BG: Could you just tell us a little bit about the work you do and why it’s important? I mean, we know things are warming up, so I guess it’s finding ways to get genetic markers for animals that are more tolerant of the warming world.

ED: Exactly. We found the slick gene. The slick is a dominant gene that we found in the Senepol breed in 2014. It is originally a beef breed from the Caribbean. Then we started the breeding programme to incorporate that into our New Zealand dairy animals.

Back then in 2014, the focus was very much around the potential of this gene for international, knowing that a lot of our dairy still comes out of tropical environments, and this is a huge opportunity for growth.

Then when we started to focus a lot more on environment and climate change, we changed the breeding objective to focus on what this gene could do for New Zealand. Because especially here in New Zealand, where animals are outside 24/7, we don’t have the opportunity to shelter them so much from heat stress as they would be in barn-based systems. So the opportunity of having a genetic solution was just amazing.

So, we started incorporating it by just traditional breeding into our crossbred animals in LIC with the hope of launching this as a commercial product in 2029.

BG: Obviously, a lot of this stuff goes above my head, but I do know that when you’re looking at these genes for certain traits, the first thing you’ve got to look at is, does it cancel out other traits you’re after as well? Like, I guess, milk production and mastitis tolerance, that sort of thing.

ED: Yes, absolutely. I’ve been leading the breeding side, where we’ve been trying to dilute this beef breed that we got the gene originally from, into our dairy animals. We’re trying to get the genetic merit and the genetic gain up to be producing milk and getting all those traits that we require for our New Zealand dairy systems.

Then alongside, my colleague has been looking at the effects of this specific gene, not just on heat tolerance, because we know that it does create a benefit for heat tolerance, but also what could this mean to the cold sensitivity of these animals?

We’ve been doing some research ourselves as well as a project in collaboration with Lincoln University, to understand, especially in calves, when they’re born in winter here in New Zealand or very early spring, what this gene would mean to them. Because we know it did create a shorter hair coat.

We found there’s been no negative consequences to this gene, and we’re hoping to publish some of this data very early in 2025. It’s very important for us that we make sure that before we commercialise, especially knowing that we’re on a seasonal system here, once it’s out there, you can’t control what animals are being born. So, we need to totally understand everything we need to know about this gene and making sure there’s no negative consequences.

BG: Well, we look forward to reading some of your research findings and then seeing some of this technology hit the market.

ED: Yeah, it’s a super exciting project. Having being part of it now for this last six and a half years, we just see these animals produce more and more. It’s so exciting to follow them from the sideline and being able to do research on them in different locations in New Zealand.

Kellogg research into genetics’ social licence to operate.

BG: If that didn’t sound like a lot of work, you were part of the first cohort of Kellogg Scholars this year.

ED: Yeah. I was part of Cohort 51, and lucky enough to be there on an LIC Scholarship.

BG: Oh, nice. Tell us a little bit about what you focused your scholarship studies on.

ED: Yeah, that’s an interesting one. Being a scientist, doing social science in leadership is quite different to my normal day-to-day activities. But what I was interested in is this aspect of this term ‘social licence to operate’ and how that applied to my area of expertise, which is genetics.

I was keen to understand how people were, first of all, to learn from other technologies. Other examples of things out there that we can learn from how people discovered and built this social licence to operate. Then understanding how people felt about genetics and what that social licence looked like. That was the main focus of my Kellogg Individual Research Project.

BG: I’m a journalist, and that seems very newsworthy because in New Zealand we’re right in the middle of having a rethink of our gene editing laws. One of the big issues that we’re all grappling with is, even though you can do it, should you? That comes down to social licence. It comes down to the marketing of your food story and all that thing, doesn’t it?

ED: Yeah. Part of why I was really interested doing this is that I felt quite often that social licence or that public perspective always came in during the commercialisation stage, and not that much during the research stage. But especially when you’re in a cooperative like LIC, everything we do is returning value to our farmers. If it doesn’t tick that social licence box, we need to pivot.

For me, it was how do we bring that conversation all the way through our research phases, from brainstorming to commercialisation? And then how do we also keep a finger on the pulse? How do we understand that the market is reacting to when we have a product in market? Because as you know, things change.

We’re living in a world where everything is changing faster than ever. So we can’t just put a product out there and just assume everything is all right. So, how do we do that? And who do we involve? Who are our stakeholders? And how do we carry that as an industry? Big questions.

BG: Oh, big questions. Did you manage to come up with some insight about how the licence was going for genetic technology?

The Kellogg research insights.

ED: It was a big question. I only scraped the surface. But one of the things that, first of all, really captured me, all the stakeholders I talked to were very passionate about genetics. Everybody understands the value of it, and it’s something that’s a cumulative that we can create and maintain. But not everybody felt like they were part of the conversation. So there’s definitely work to do there.

Then it brought up a lot of conversations around New Zealand Inc. How can we collectively take responsibility of all the aspects of our dairy towards not just our direct community here in New Zealand, but also our consumers overseas? That was really fascinating. Also, one of the other things that came up was the term ‘trust’. How do we build trust? But also what level of transparency do we get down to?

As I said, I’m Dutch. I like to think I’m a very open and almost, oversharing person. For me, a big learning curve was that sometimes by creating almost too much transparency, you actually raise more questions, or you highlight probably the negatives a bit too much. How do you balance that?

By building that trust, having transparency, but not oversharing where you just create confusion. There was some really interesting learnings in there.

BG: I was going to ask that because you’re uniquely placed to give insight into things. The Netherlands is one of the big food tech, animal production powerhouses of the world. I guess the general population on the street probably has a pretty fair idea about what’s going on over there. I wondered how it differed from New Zealand.

ED: Probably not at all. I would think that there’s a closer connection here to our farming communities just because a lot more people live rural. There’s a real urban-rural divide in the Netherlands, where a lot of people probably wouldn’t really understand where their food is coming from.

Then for me as well, I was very interested in that stakeholder piece around consumer versus customer, versus your direct community. But because we’re an export country here in New Zealand, what does that look like and how do we do that? In the Netherlands, it’s similar. Here, people feel very connected to farmers. They see it on their way to school, they see it on their way to work. Probably not so much in the Netherlands.

Food security and farming systems – Netherlands vs New Zealand.

BG: That’s interesting. I guess another thing to think about is that because we export so much of our food, we kind of don’t have the same food security concerns that places like the Netherlands do, and who have relatively recent major issues in terms of keeping everyone fed.

ED: Absolutely. Animal health as well, and diseases, things like that. This is a very different ball game. That’s what makes it so fascinating to be here in New Zealand. Also just the seasonal pasture system, I think it’s absolutely fantastic what we’re doing here and how we convert our basics into profit.

But at the same time, it brings its own challenges. As I mentioned before, when we have a product like genetics going out and it’s being used in spring, next year, we get millions of calves, and it could be thousands of the same sire line, for example.

That brings very different complex systems with it than we have in Netherlands where you have barn-based systems and you get a calf every second or third day. It’s just absolutely fascinating to compare the systems and understand the strengths and weaknesses.

Connecting with the Kellogg network.

BG: How did you find the Kellogg programme on the whole? It’s quite a big deal. There’s a bit of work involved. Of course, you’ve got cohort of people doing it with you.

ED: You walk in that room the first day and you get really bad imposter syndrome. Being a scientist, I’m like, wow, there’s all these leaders here in the room, what am I doing here? But I think the beauty of Kellogg is not just the content and the amazing speakers you get, but it is that cohort.

Just being able to banter with others, understand what they do, what drives them, understand their farming systems or their organisations. Especially for somebody like me that didn’t grow up in this industry. It was really important to set those networks and understand a bit more about the drivers of other people on the course.

BG: You’re here in Aotearoa to stay, you reckon?

ED: Yeah, I am a permanent resident. I’m living just outside of Te Awamutu rurally, so absolutely here to stay.

BG: It’s been great chatting to you, Esther. All the best for the rest of your work there at LIC.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Kate Scott: Front footing the fast-moving regulatory environment.

In this podcast Jack Cocks, 2021 Kellogg Scholar talks to Bryan Gibson Managing Editor Farmers Weekly, about his research into resilience in the face of adversity.

Jack faced his own adversity in the form of a brain aneurysm that sparked a recovery journey spanning 15 surgeries over six years.

Jack works on Mt. Nicholas Station with his family. He shares the three things all resilient and thriving farmers have in common here.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I am Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, Bryan Gibson. This week our special guest is Jack Cocks from Mount Nicholas Station. G’day Jack. How’s it going?

Jack Cocks, Mt. Nicholas Station.
G’day Bryan. I’m good, thanks. How are you?

BG: Yeah, good. Now, you were part of the Kellogg Programme two or three years ago, and you focused on farmer resilience, which is obviously a very important issue, but you’ve got a special reason for doing that, don’t you?

Well qualified to share insights on resilience.

JC: Yeah, I stumbled into it. It wasn’t something I really intended to be studying or to get involved in. Probably something I probably couldn’t define 20 years ago, what resilience was. But my wife and I have been farming here for about 16 years. About 11 years ago, I had a brain aneurysm caused by a rare form of inflammation between some blood vessels in my brain. Almost died, expected to die, had a number of complications, got a lot of time in surgery, in hospital, and a lot of surgeries over the next six years.

Then out of that experience, I got told I was a resilient character for bouncing back from adversity, and I didn’t really think I was that particularly resilient, and I didn’t think I knew what I was talking about – talking about resilience to a group. I felt everybody faces adversity.

Kate, my wife, and I were talking about this one morning over breakfast, and she said, why don’t you do the Kellogg Programme and study resilience? So, that’s how I got involved in Kellogg and how I ended up studying resilience.

BG: Tell us a little bit about what you found through your studies and how it made you understand your journey better or relate to it, or see any difference there, I guess.

Thriving in the face of adversity.

JC: I wanted to figure out how resilient farmers thrive in the face of adversity, which I use as a definition of resilience, that is, their ability to thrive in the face of adversity. So, to answer that question, I found five farmers throughout the South Island who had all faced major adversity, and they’d thrived in the face of that.

I sat down with each of for two or three hours, and we talked about their life pre-adversity, what it was they’d gone through, and then how they felt they’d been resilient. Out of that, there were some very strong similarities across those five farmers that all unknowingly, and independent of each other, had done the same things to be resilient and get through adversity. It all came together quite nicely in a simple little model.

Purpose, why, and connection.

BG: Because I guess often, we think about resilience as a moral quality, if you know what I mean, like courage or something like that. But it seems what you’re saying is resilience is something that anyone can do if they have the tools or know the process.

JC: Yeah, very much so. It’s something you can learn. Some people will be naturally more resilient than others and able to handle adversity. But it is something you can learn. I guess the model that came out of my Kellogg project was trying to develop some tools that people could utilise in their own lives to be more resilient.

So, when they faced the next challenge, and we all face challenges. They’re able to better handle that and get through that adversity.

BG: What is the model?

JC: So, there was three things that these five farmers all did. They all had very strong purpose, so they understood why they were doing what they were doing, and they were all very good at keeping connected. So, they surrounded themselves with people who could help them through adversity, and they all understood their wellbeing, or what they needed in their lives to be well and to be happy.

It came together visually in the form of a triangle with purpose at the top. That’s the ‘why’, connection being the glue in the middle of the triangle. That’s the ‘who’. And then wellbeing as the ‘what’ at the base of the triangle. That’s what came out of my Kellogg project. I’ve since done a couple of papers with a friend of mine, Joanne (Jo) Stevenson, a farmer in North Canterbury, and Hamish Gow at Lincoln University, which we’ve talked about and published in different journals.

Telling the resilience story.

BG: Tell me a little bit about that process. Are you from an academic background

JC: No, not at all. I’m probably quite academic for a farmer. I’ve got a postgraduate degree, but the first one was for the Institute of Primary Industry Management that Jo and I did. And then the second paper was for the International Farm Management Congress, which Jo, Hamish and I put together, and I presented that in Canada.

I guess where that came from, and this was Jo’s idea, Bryan, but one of the things that really came through when I’ve done probably 30 talks over the last five or six years about my health story, and resilience and the outcomes of my Kellogg research.

One of the things that came through to me was that people really resonate with the stories, the individual stories, my story of what I’d gone through from a health perspective and these five farmers I studied in the Kellogg Project.

So, Jo saw this, she’s got a background in resilience and found that there’s actually a lot of literature that suggests we can build our own resilience through understanding stories, through the stories we build ourselves on how we’ve navigated adversity, and hearing stories about how other people have navigated adversity.

So, if I hear a story about how you’ve gotten through a financial challenge or a family challenge, or whatever, and been really resilient, that might in-turn develop my own resilience and say, Oh, actually, I know Bryan got through that challenge by doing this. He’s come through the other side really well, so that suggests I can do the same. That most recent paper that I presented in Canada was based around that.

Resilience in a time of rapid change.

BG: Having presented internationally on this, are places like Canada, other places doing this work as well? Do they have the same take on it?

JC: I think it resonated certainly with the audience in Canada. It really did. I think resilience is something that increasingly is needed by everybody in the world. I think something that resonates with people, is that we all face adversity and we all need to be resilient. It’s not just me, in my family that’s had a health challenge. Everybody goes through challenges.

BG: Sometimes you hear people say a focus on resilience means you’re adapting people to deal with broken systems, and perhaps we should deal with the broken systems. But that’s simplistic as well, I guess. There’s always going to be obstacles, challenges in front of everyone, and it’s having the tools in the toolbox to be able to deal with them. Is that something you’d agree with?

JC: Yeah, I think so. There’s a lot of interpretations of resilience. Sometimes it’s being tough. Traditionally, it’s been bouncing back from adversity. But people that work in the resilience field now think because adversity is so common and constant, we’ve had COVID, climate change, a cost-of-living crisis. We actually need to be able to thrive in the face of adversity rather than just bounce back. So, that’s the current thinking from people that are working in the field of resilience.

Resilience is our ability to thrive in the face of adversity. But it’s a word that gets used a fair bit these days, and that’s possibly misinterpreted and mis-defined.

BG: I guess that’s something important as well. You mentioned we have seen resilience as returning to whatever we thought normal was or what was beforehand as quickly as possible. But to have an enduring effect, it’s actually about doing the right things and coming out stronger and more able to cope. And that might take longer and might look different for different people, I guess.

JC: Yes. I guess these three strategies that I came out of this Kellogg research, the idea was that they’re applicable to anyone, be it a farmer, be it a health challenge, or be it a financial challenge, you can apply these. It’s important to be resilient, to have a strong sense of purpose, a strong reason why your dairy farming in the Manawatu makes it easy for you to recover from a flood, or sheep farming in the Wairarapa makes it easier for you to get through a dry spell if you’ve got that strong reason why you’re farming where you are. And then connection and wellbeing are really important as well. But those three strategies, I think, are applicable to all farmers and everybody.

A sense of purpose.

BG: Now you’ve done all this work, the Kellogg Scholar Report, other papers written, obviously presented around the place. How do you feel now when looking back before you did all this through your health issues? Did you do what you now put on the tin, so to speak?

JC: Did I achieve what I wanted to by doing Kellogg?

BG: No, it was more talking about how you got through your challenge. Did you do it in a way that you would now prescribe as the way to do it?

JC: Oh, yes. Yeah, I see what you mean. I guess I’d been okay or all right. I’d been connected with other people. I had a huge network of support, my family and friends that helped me through that health challenge. I was probably reasonably good at understanding my wellbeing and figured out what I needed to do to keep happy and well.

People have asked, were you depressed or did you suffer from depression? And I got pretty annoyed at times with being in hospital, but I don’t think I did suffer depression. Those two things I was probably not too bad at, Bryan. The purpose was something that came out of the Kellogg research. These five farmers all had that strong sense of purpose, and that’s something I’ve tried to put in place in my life since. And that’s been a really valuable thing.

Kellogg and life on Mt. Nicholas Station.

BG: Those five farmers, what were their challenges? Just to put some context around how this resilience method can be applied. What had they gone through?

JC: So, one was a health challenge, one was climatic, one was financial, one was family, and then one was grief, personal loss. So, the five typical most common forms of adversity that farmers face, not all forms of adversity, but five of the more common forms. These farmers were from Southland to Marlborough and scattered in between. So, a pretty good spread across different farming systems.

BG: Different types of people, too, different age ranges and that sort of thing?

JC: Yeah, probably 30 years difference in age from the youngest to the oldest.

BG: I guess it just goes to show that if you have the building blocks there about how to navigate these things, it doesn’t matter who you are, where you’re from, you can apply them to your own situation.

JC: Yes, absolutely.

BG: The Kellogg Programme itself, it seems like a lot has come out of it for you. What was that like for you, doing the work?

JC: It was a fantastic programme. It’s very well structured, it’s well organised and facilitated. Great speakers, great content, a peer group that you go through with. So, for me, it was probably… It sounds a bit flippant Bryan, but it was probably a life-changing experience for me because I’d been pretty well in my mid-30s, and then almost died.

I’d been on a walking frame and had to regain my speech and learned to walk again multiple times to get to the level where I was able to contribute and take part in that programme. But it’s a great programme. I can’t really say enough good things about it.

BG: How are things for you now, Mount Nicholas? Obviously, a lot of work involved there. Things going okay?

JC: Yeah, and I think it’s pretty good. It’s been a pretty good climatic season for us over the last 12 months. It’s quite challenging financially as it is for all farmers in the country or all businesses, all people in New Zealand at the moment. But yeah, climatically, it’s been a good season for us.

BG: And if prices go down a bit further or the snow comes in or whatever the challenges are, you’ve got the magic triangle to fall back on, I guess.

JC: Yeah, that does help. It certainly does help. I wouldn’t advise this at all, Brian, to anyone, but you’re having a life, a near-death experience certainly puts things in perspective. When things are a bit turning a bit pear-shaped, you’ve still got your life and your health and your family. At the end of the day, you’re going to have challenges. That’s what I’ve really learned over the last 10 or 11 years.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Kate Scott: Front footing the fast-moving regulatory environment.

Key food security programme delivered in US-NZ partnership.

‘Mission New Zealand – Navigating Geopolitical Tensions and Climate Change as an Agri-based Economy’, was a week-long programme delivered by Rural Leaders in Christchurch.

Facilitated by Dr Scott Champion, the programme was designed to give a group of 25 visiting Gilman Scholarship alumni a deep dive into global food security.

Participants gained insights into the policies, technologies, and adaptation measures that aim to secure the New Zealand agricultural sector and reduce environmental impacts.

The programme was an opportunity to explore New Zealand’s innovation and initiatives towards food security. It included modules on global food security, trade, food and fibre value chains, a NZ Government perspective on food security, a Te Ao Māori perspective, food safety, precision agriculture, as well as presentations from supply chain, biosecurity, regulatory, and sustainability leaders.

For Rural Leaders the programme represented the strengthening of an important relationship between both enterprises, and more broadly, between the US and NZ.

Lisa Rogers, Rural Leaders’ CEO said, “We were pleased to be asked to host and deliver this Global Food Security focussed programme for the Benjamin A Gillman Scholarship from the US.

The week provided the opportunity to showcase NZ Food and Fibre’s innovative and entrepreneurial approach to food production.

With presenters to the group including politicians, officials and innovative producers, the group of scholars had an immersive week within our Food and Fibre sector.

The opportunity to hear external view points about our sector and its food production systems was as invaluable as it was refreshing.”

For the Benjamin A. Gilman International Scholarship Program and the US Department of State, ‘Mission New Zealand’ has been a valuable cross-pollination of ideas and knowledge sharing, for food security and for the platform it has provided for discussing some of the challenges both countries face.

Gilman Scholarship Alum Darrin Vander Plas – REX podcast.

One attending Gilman Scholarship alum, Darrin Vander Plas (pictured above), took time to chat to Dominic George and REX online about what he and his colleagues learned on their trip to NZ, his role with the US Department of Agriculture Farm Loan Program in Maui and his time helping farmers in The Gambia and Uganda.

Darrin Vander Plas, from the US Department of Agriculture, is one of these people who has ventured over and he explains further what the goal of the trip is as well as some of the highlights so far.

Vander Plas, who manages the USDA Farm Loan Program in Maui County, Hawaii, highlights the resilience of Kiwi farmers despite the absence of government subsidies.

Additionally, he discusses his experiences in The Gambia and Uganda, where he supported local farmers through various agricultural initiatives and his experiences during last year’s wildfires in Hawaii.

Lisa Rogers – Leadership Programmes and Pathways.

If we believe the Food and Fibre sector has a Leadership challenge versus a Productivity challenge, then developing our sector’s leadership capability needs to be a priority.

In this podcast, Lisa Rogers, CEO, Rural Leaders talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor, Farmers Weekly about the recently released report ‘A Path to Realising Leadership Potential in Aotearoa NZ’s Food and Fibre Sector’, along with its leadership development framework, and the leadership programmes serving as key tools for building more and ever greater leaders for our country.

Listen to Lisa’s podcast here or read the transcript below.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I am Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, Bryan Gibson, and with me today is Lisa Rogers, Chief Executive of Rural Leaders. G’day Lisa, how’s it going?

Lisa Rogers, CEO, Rural Leaders
Great. Thanks, Bryan. It’s good to be here.

BG: Now, as we know, Rural Leaders is in the business of creating people who are primed to go into leadership roles. But recently, you’ve been involved in a big report on the state of leadership pathways in New Zealand is and how they might be improved. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

A new report that aims to help solve an old challenge.

LR: Yeah, sure. We’ve recently released a significant report in developing leaders in the Sector. It’s called a Path to Realising Leadership Potential in Aotearoa, New Zealand’s Food and Fibre Sector. We’re very proud of this piece of work that the authorship team has taken almost two years to bring together.

It was originally commissioned and supported by Food and Fibre CoVE – the Centre of Vocational Excellence. They commissioned Rural Leaders to conduct research into the state of leadership development in the sector and to also create a principles-based model towards leadership development. This report is now out. The report covers three main areas: Why we lead, how we lead, and how we are going to continue to grow leadership.

The idea is for this work to become a user guide, for want of a better word. And there is a framework that sits around it as well for people to be able to identify where they are on their leadership journey and to then look at what programmes and what a pathway might look like for their development, depending on where they are in their journey and their age and stage.

So, yeah, it’s a great piece of work.

BG: Obviously, when we think about leadership in the Food and Fibre sector, there are the likes of the Kellogg and Nuffield Programmes. There are other programmes out there, AgriWomen’s Development Trust, and there are various associate board member roles that various processes play. Do we have the infrastructure in place to succeed in building new leaders?

Leadership development programmes and pathways.

LR: I think there’s a great range of exemplars and programmes that are out there. The structure is the thing that’s been missing up until now. A lot of organisations and people have considered this over the years, and this is a foundational piece of work to be able to start creating an ecosystem system that we’re going to have.

It’s not going to necessarily be all about New Zealand Rural Leadership Trust. We want to be part of this, along with everyone else. So, what we’re wanting to do is get a great range of programmes that are there from early days or vocational type programmes. So, from first steps on their leadership development right through operations teams and into that strategic level of leadership as well, which traditionally, Kellogg and the Nuffield Scholarship have been in that later stage.

But we’re also developing and delivering new programmes as well. We’re very proud to be also involved in the Horticulture New Zealand Leadership Programme, which is in that operational space, and looking now at team leadership programme as well. Rural Leaders has got a lot of great programmes to be as exemplars of this leadership journey, but we also want to bring other organisations in to have their programmes there for delivery as well. They’ll obviously still belong to those organisations, but we want everyone to play in this space.

Horticulture New Zealand Leadership Programme, the Value Chain Programme and Engage.

BG: You mentioned the Horticulture New Zealand Leadership Programme, and of course, we know about Kellogg and Nuffield. What are some of the other programmes that Rural Leaders specifically has?

LR: Traditionally, we’re about leadership, and we still absolutely are. That’s our core purpose. But we are also increasingly moving into the capability space now and development of those leaders in the sector. We have the Value Chain Innovation Programme, which runs every year. It’s seven days going through to our iconic four big value chains.

It’s an amazing opportunity to do deep dives into the sheep and beef, the dairy, horticulture, and kiwi fruit industries, and understanding why they are such an important part of our sector, along with all the moving parts that go with that. There are always new changes, and that’s an incredible week with Professor Hamish Gow and Phil Morrison from down in Southland.

We also run a new programme called Engage, which is really starting to pick up a head of steam now. It started off as a joint venture with Lincoln University and Ministry for the Environment. It’s for people coming into this sector who have got great transferable skills but weren’t necessarily brought up in a farming or food and fibre environment. So, they have a three-day immersive programme with us, and we’re finding that that is becoming quite a go-to programme for us as well.

Rural Leaders is starting to build a real stable of programmes and become known as a leader development organisation more than anything else, which is so exciting.

BG: Obviously, the programmes that are out there and the support for people is a key aspect. But leadership is built in the workplace, isn’t it? In the relationships you have and the opportunities you’re given, maybe even when you’re just starting out in your career. We’ve mentioned the report. Are there other tools in the toolbox that can help workplace places develop their staff?

Rural Leaders provides tools for leadership development.

LR: Absolutely. So, the report is all about identifying that pathway. There’s a capability framework there. So, we want people to come in and have a look at this in a way that is accessible. So very shortly, we’re building a microsite, for want of a better word, so it’ll be mobile friendly.

It’s a way of having a look at where they are now on their journey. So, we assess, am I at the beginning of my leadership development? Have I been doing this for a while? Am I looking for a change? If I’ve been doing something for a while? And then actually ask a few more questions around that. And then this framework will give them some suggestions on programmes that they can be involved in now, some stuff they might like to look at in another year or two’s time, and then further out from there as well.

Again, it’s an independent assessment, so we’re not necessarily pushing them into all our programmes, although there’s some great opportunities there. But it might be that other organisations have got some great programmes around for them as well. And we certainly include the like of Muka Tangata as well and some of the WDC programmes that are out there – the Workforce Development Councils.

So, we’re also looking at how these can be micro-credentialed, so they give true value for the people who are undertaking them as well. We’re also looking at developing a high-performing teams programme. We see that as a real gap in the availability about being able to create an environment for thriving and high-performing teams.

BG: Identifying the people who have leadership potential and working with them is one thing. I guess Food and Fibre has often struggled to attract some of the talent to the sector from schools and that sort of thing; traditionally pushing people towards medicine, and law. How do we shift the dial there? Because the Food and Fibre sector is so important to New Zealand. It’s so big, in a sense. It really needs to have the best and brightest there, doesn’t it?

With good leadership, people stay.

LR: It sure does. When you think that there’s almost 360,000 people working in this sector now, and it’s worth over $55 billion a year in export income, it’s an incredibly important part of New Zealand’s economy. And up until now, one of the statistics that’s come out of this research is that the churn rate through the sector is something like 71% after three years. Now, that’s extraordinary. Even if you take into consideration seasonal workers, RSC workers coming into the country to work, particularly in horticulture, that’s just mind boggling to think that 71% of people are gone after three years.

The cost to the economy of that, for each time somebody turns over out of a job is just extraordinary. What we need to do is make sure that we can address this and have people who come into the sector and want to stay. To feel like they’ve got some path to grow and develop in there, and that there is a long-term view for them.

Now, it can be in all sorts of aspects of the sector. It doesn’t have to be necessarily a path towards farm ownership, because we want this report, and the framework, to apply to people working in the Food and Fibre service industries as well as on farm or on an orchard.

It’s as applicable to anybody who is an owner or an employer as it is to someone who’s a worker. We want everyone to be able to see themselves in here and look at this framework that we’re putting forward and say, this is where I see myself now, these are the things I’d like to think about developing myself, in particular, my leadership. Once we’ve got people who are feeling as though they have got a purpose and a pathway in front of them, we’re more likely to see a more settled and productive workforce sitting there. We see that this has got huge economic as well as social benefits for the sector.

Hamish Murray: Building stronger on-farm teams by getting out of the way.

In this podcast, Rachel Baker, 2024 Nuffield Scholar talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor, Farmers Weekly, and gives a unique perspective from inside Nuffield.

Rachel speaks about about some of the similarities and differences between the farming systems in the countries she has visited with New Zealand’s.

Rachel discusses insights from Indonesia’s primary industries, France’s love of food, Denmark entering an emissions scheme, California’s water challenges and Chile’s low rates of Research and Development.

This is a must listen for anyone considering a Nuffield Scholarship in 2025 or beyond.

Listen to Rachel’s podcast here or read the transcript below.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
Welcome to Ideas That Grow, a podcast from Rural Leaders. I’m your host, Bryan Gibson, the Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly. We’ve got a very special guest today, a current Nuffield Scholar, Rachel Baker. G’day, Rachel, how are you?

Rachel Baker, 2024 Nuffield Scholar
Yeah, good. Thanks, Bryan. Thanks for having me.

BG:
Now, where are you calling in from? Where’s home for you?

A Nuffield Scholar with a background in many industries.

RB: Home for me is Central Hawkes Bay, tucked up near the Ruahine Ranges. My husband and I graze just under 500 dairy heifers. I guess in my day job, I’m portfolio manager for pit fruit for my farm investments. And also with a dairy background, I do some consulting with dairy farmers.

BG: Quite a range of farming industries involved there.

RB: Yeah, life isn’t a straight line. It’s a wiggly line. There are a few stories behind those changes. But I’ve been fortunate. I’ve got a foot in agriculture, and I guess a foot in horticulture as well. So, it keeps me busy and keeps life interesting.

BG: Was that always going to be the path for you? Did you grow up on a farm or was it something you found?

RB: I grew up on a small farm, but my mother was from a large sheep and farming family here in Hawkes Bay. So, I’ve always been involved in farming, but I actually did a veterinary degree. So, I worked as a veterinarian for a short period of time and then morphed into dairy consulting. Then my husband and I took an opportunity to go share milking. So that’s how we entered the dairy sector and had some really good experiences there and actually sold our cows and bought a dry stock farm. That’s how we ended up grazing dairy heifers.

The transition to horticulture really came about through dairy connections within my farm investments. Because I live in Hawkes Bay, I said yes to an opportunity to oversee some of those early apple developments. That was seven years ago and still involved, yeah, still learning and enjoying it along the way with the dairy.

BG: Attracting more investment into food production sectors is pretty vital. So, you’ve got a big job.

RB: It is a good story because it’s bringing capital into the agriculture and horticultural sector, largely from New Zealanders, which is a really positive story. So, yeah, I’m really pleased to be involved in managing their investments.

Halfway through a Nuffield Scholarship.

BG: Now, you’re smack bang in the middle, I guess, of your Nuffield Scholarship Programme. How’s it going for a start, and what subject area are you looking at?

RB: Yes, I am part way through my scholarship at the moment. I’m interested in looking at New Zealand’s global proposition in terms of being a food exporter. In terms of Nuffield itself, the programme really is comprised of three parts. The third part is that research project and doing individual research, which I’m yet to do.

The Nuffield Contemporary Scholars Conference (CSC).

The first part is a conference where all the scholars from that year from around the globe meet together in a country, which changes every year. It’s a conference looking at global issues as well as the host country itself. We were fortunate that Brazil was the host country for 2024.

We went to Brazil in March and had our global scholars conference there. The second part to Nuffield is a global focus programme, and I’ve just come back in early July from that, which is a small group travelling together through five countries in five and a half weeks looking at food production.

The Nuffield Global Focus Programme (GFC).

BG: Can you tell us more about the Global Focus Programme?

RB: There are a number of different Global Focus Programmes based on different times of the year to try and give an opportunity to fit within your own farming and work calendar, and also different countries as well. The countries our group visited were: Indonesia, France, Denmark.

We also went to California and to Chile. The group was made up of 12. They were a good representation of countries as well. We had six Australians, two from Ireland, a Brazilian, a Chilean, and a Zimbabwean. We all travelled together through that time, and obviously got to know each other really well, as well as looking at the challenges and opportunities in all of those countries.

BG: First up, I mean, having that range of people from diverse farming-related backgrounds must be really cool to just talk while you’re travelling and understand how other people think about things.

RB: It was a really diverse group not only in terms of the countries but also what sectors people were involved in. We had tulip grower from Tasmania through to a pig farmer from Zimbabwe. Also, people involved in international fertiliser and the food trade. We had a really nice cross-section, good conversations, and learning together as a group.

That farmer, peer-to-peer learning, you just can’t beat it. When you’re on the road together for that time, you get to know each other well. You learn a lot from each other as well as, obviously, who you’re meeting day to day.

GFC - first stop Indonesia.

BG: Tell us a little about Indonesia. We forget that it’s one of the most populous countries on Earth. It’s not that far away, but when you think of it, you think of some beaches and things like that. But what food production facilities or operations did you take a look at?

RB: Indonesia was our first country, and it was fascinating. A huge population, well over 200 million. So compared to New Zealand, you couldn’t get a better contrast to start. We were hosted by an Australian who had set up cattle feed lots there over 30 years ago.

We’re really fortunate that we got good insights into a lot of different food sectors as well. We did see cattle feed lots, imported cattle from Australia being finished there in Indonesia, through to spice and pepper processing.

We went out on fishing boats with some local fishermen, right through to seeing pineapple plantations being harvested by hand in 40 plus degree heat and 90 % humidity. So, we got a really good range of scale, but also some real subsistence farming as well – from a single man climbing up trees and harvesting palm sugar and making a living out of that.

BG: And where did you head next? Scandinavia?

Nuffield GFC – France.

RB: So, from Indonesia, we headed to France. We spent our time in Normandy, in the north. And again, we got some good insight into French farming. France is just a wonderful food culture. They really celebrate food and they’re really proud of what they produce. A lot of it is artisan. It’s got provenance associated with it. And so, we got a real feel for that.

French farming is in a challenging place at the moment. They feel they’re under threat from imported food products coming in at a cheaper cost to what they can produce. That’s a challenging time for them. But by the same token, there are a lot of strong cooperatives in France. We got a good insight into some cooperative models, which, of course, having a number of strong cooperatives in New Zealand was really interesting.

BG: Yeah, what you were saying about the narrative that goes along with French food, it is so strong. A lot of people think this is something we could try to emulate here. I guess, put some real culture around our food production. I mean, is that something you see as worthwhile?

RB: As a New Zealand food producer, I think we produce high-quality food. It’s safe food from a food security viewpoint. So, any opportunity I had, I was looking for New Zealand produce in the countries we were visiting. There’s quite a buzz when you actually find New Zealand produce in a store or a supermarket when you’re travelling. So, I think from that regard, the food that I saw, the quality that was in front of the consumer was largely very good.

As food producers, we need to be high quality. There’s a lot of challenge coming to us or at us from countries with lower costs of production. I think quality is paramount and I think we should be proud of that. The provenance of New Zealand, it came up-time and time again. New Zealand was mentioned a lot – that it’s a beautiful country and we produce lovely food. So, we should leverage off that.

BG: Yeah. Now, where did it head next?

Nuffield GFC – Denmark.

RB: Next, we went to Denmark. So, it was an interesting time actually being there because not long after we left Denmark, they announced that agriculture would have an emissions tax from 2030. It was great timing for us. I think while I was away, New Zealand pushed pause on agriculture entering emissions trading scheme. So, the timing to be there in Denmark when they were deciding, they’d made the commitment they were going to go. It was just the uncertainty for farmers around what it actually looked like.

I found Denmark very similar to New Zealand in many ways. So, that was quite a good insight. They have a very high wages, and a high tax rate in Denmark, but obviously they have a very strong education, health, welfare system as well. In terms of trying to make a profit, it was a challenge for Danish farmers at this time.

BG: I’ve read a little about the plan that Denmark has to introduce that emissions levy. I know the agreement was nutted out by the government with stakeholders, and that includes some industry groups from the farming sector, so they did get to help mould it. On the ground there, were there farmers you spoke to? How were they feeling about it? Uncertain, I guess?

RB: I think they just wanted to have some certainty. There’s a great quote that uncertainty is the cancer of business. I think they just wanted to be certain about what the plan and the future looked like for them.

I think from a Danish farmer perspective, they do get good support, and they’ve got some excellent programmes in place around, say, a green accelerator programme. This is where they can get up to 70% rebate on any investment in technology that’s going to advance them towards sustainability and a green future.

It was clear that even though they were going to be entering an emissions tax, there was no doubt they wanted to maintain their food production and their productivity. In terms of entering the scheme was – it was not to reduce the amount of food that they were going to produce. It was just that they were going to produce it in a more environmentally sustainable way. From that perspective, I think that they felt there was support available to them to make the transition, and that’s quite refreshing.

BG: That’s really interesting. When I think about incentives for more sustainable production, you often think of planting and retiring land and that sort of thing. But having subsidies for technology, which is a completely different proposition, seems a bit more enticing to both sides of the equation.

RB: I think they’re looking at multiple solutions. They’re going to pump billions into retiring some peat lands in Denmark to help with their emissions transition. I also think biodiversity came up a lot in most of the countries we visited. And again, that’s a real opportunity for New Zealand, because if you look at the land area that we have in native forest and also in farmed land, what area has actually been retired or riparian planted?

We really need to map that and leverage off that because I believe it’s going to be a global food currency – biodiversity in the future. So, we have it and we’re making really good progress. I think we need to leverage that to our advantage.

Nuffield GFC – California.

BG: Now, California, a big state, a food basket in many ways for the United States. That must have been fun.

RB: Yeah, it was really interesting. It’s the fifth largest economy in the world, if it was to be treated as though it was a country. So, we spent time in California, in Fresno, up through to Sacramento.

It was very hot. We had a heatwave while we were there, which was uncomfortable for most of us. But the big story there is water and really getting a good insight into the water challenges they’ve got in California. With less ice melt out of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, more rain, more precipitation, more growing cities, all demanding more water.

California - the water scarcity challenge.

Their sources of water are surface with allocation rights for deep-water, groundwater takes. They’ve got real challenges around a six-inch rainfall in Fresno County. Maybe they get 50% of their allocated volume from surface water. They’re needing to take groundwater as well. So, there are big recharging programmes in place. One farm we went to had spent $15 million USD on a recharge system, which may only be used every three or four years.

Then further up, closer to the Delta, the Government’s proposing putting in a $25 billion USD pipeline in to pump water through to Los Angeles and San Francisco. So, you’ve got real contention around water rights and water use and what priorities should be in place.

So, it was really good for us to see that. But also, you do wonder what areas may not be in horticulture in California in the future. So, there’s some real challenges there for them around not only the infrastructure, but just the allocation of water as well.

BG: Yeah, the last few years, they’ve been focusing on some pretty thirsty crops there, haven’t they?

RB: They have. I guess also the challenge is they’ve had real success growing almonds and selling almonds. But again, they’re almost running the risk of commoditising their own value product by planting more and more hectares. So, it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Nuffield GFC – Chile.

BG: And further down the Coast of Americas, Chile, it always amazes me that place. I’ve not been there, but it’s so long and thin.

RB: It is the longest and thinnest country in the world. Narrow, I think, in diameter than New Zealand, from border to border. So, that was our last country. We left 40 plus degree heat in California and went into the single-digit temperatures in Chile, which was a bit of a shock for us all. But hey, what a great country.

We had some really good insight into Chile and, I guess, in policy to start with. Also, looking at Chile as a country that is open to foreign investment. We saw examples of that in Chile. But again, similar challenges, less ice melt, more precipitation, lack of infrastructure, investment, a slow consenting process.

On-farm storage of water was not really progressing very quickly at all. It’s a low-wage economy. We went to an avocado plantation on very steep country that in New Zealand would be sheep and beef or planted in forestry. Their staff were harvesting with football boots, with sprigs, because it’s so steep. So, they were harvesting avocados by hand. Just to see that on that steep country was quite mind-blowing. They’re a real powerhouse of cherry production and apple production too.

I’m involved in the apple industry with the work that I do so, it was really interesting. Just the scale of some of their operations was really significant. One thing I found interesting was that levy-funded R&D didn’t appear to exist in Chile. That’s a real challenge for them in terms of keeping pace with, say, countries like New Zealand. We could fund more, of course, but we have a real focus on research and development and advancement of varieties, et cetera. So, I felt we certainly had a competitive advantage there.

What’s next on the Nuffield Scholarship Programme?

BG: So, you’re back in Aotearoa, and you’ve got a lot to digest from all that, I guess. Next up for you in the Nuffield Programme is putting pen to paper?

RB: Yeah, that third part of the Nuffield Scholarship is individual travel. So, I’m starting to develop my travel and research plans. I plan to spend some more time away looking, as I said before, that value proposition for New Zealand into the future. So, visiting countries that maybe operate in the same markets as us or maybe they’re customers of ours, and really drilling deeper into that.

BG: Sounds really exciting. Thanks for that, Rachel. All the best for the rest of your Nuffield journey.

The 2025 Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarship applications close 18 August.

RB: Thank you. And for those that are thinking about applying for Nuffield, I’d really encourage them to really think strongly about applying because from my perspective, this is filling that global piece I really wanted to develop, being involved in food production.

This really is unparalleled. It’s an amazing opportunity. For those people that are thinking about applying for a Nuffield Scholarship, put that imposter-syndrome to the side and put your best foot forward because it really is an amazing opportunity.

BG: Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in Association with Farmers Weekly. For more information on Rural Leaders, the Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarship, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, and the Value Chain Innovation Programme, please visit ruralleaders.co.nz

Campbell Parker – Leading with authenticity in a fast-changing sector.

Farmers Weekly Managing Editor Bryan Gibson speaks to Campbell Parker, Chief Executive Officer at DairyNZ.

Campbell discusses his involvement with the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme and how leading with authenticity can go a long way to helping us achieve big things in a time of rapid change.

Listen to Campbell’s podcast here or read the transcript below.

Bryan Gibson – Managing Editor of Farmer’s Weekly.

Kia Ora, you’ve joined the Ideas That Grow podcast, brought to you by Rural Leaders. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas that Grow is presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I am Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, Bryan Gibson, and with me today is Campbell Parker, Chief Executive of DairyNZ. G’day Campbell, how’s it going?

Campbell Parker, CEO DairyNZ
How are you, Bryan? Yeah, I’m pretty good, thanks.

BG: Now, you’re not an alumnus of the Kellogg or the Nuffield Programmes, but you have been called upon to work with some of the Kellogg cohorts, to talk to them about leadership. What does that involve?

Sharing leadership experiences with Kellogg scholars.

Image: Campbell Parker with 2024 Programme One Kellogg Scholars (K51).

CP: I had the opportunity in the end of January to go down and talk to the most current cohort. They were looking for a view around the dairy industry. Obviously, I’m CEO of DairyNZ, but that was where it started.

Ultimately, what you find in those conversations is that you start talking about the Sector, but then you start talking about leadership. The conversation with them ended up in a very interesting space around what are some of the challenges the sector has and where does leadership fit in.

What I also find interesting with a group like that is they’re interested in your own personal leadership journey and where they are in their own journey. How do we learn together and what is the role of leadership? You always find those sessions really stimulating; when you get to talk about what that is and what are we all trying to achieve from a leadership perspective.

BG: Leadership is an interesting thing. For myself, I hold a leadership position in our business. But to tell you the truth, a while back, I wouldn’t have thought leadership was for me. I’m a quiet person. I’m a listener, like journalists often are.

You quite often don’t marry that to what you stereotypically look for in a leader. What do you think about how leadership has evolved over time and what qualities are important?

Leading well starts with understanding yourself.

CP: I think leadership is an evolving subject, and it continues to evolve. But one of the things I’ve seen, I think people have a frame around what they think leadership is. I personally believe everyone can be a leader. First of all, you’ve got to lead yourself. That’s where it starts.

Some of the best leaders I’ve worked with aren’t necessarily the gregarious and outgoing people. But to sum it up, I think one of the most important traits around leadership is authenticity and being really clear about who you are as a person, what your impact on others is, and how you try and lead people.

It does start with having a good understanding of yourself, what motivates you, what drives you, how you react to certain circumstances, and then ultimately, how do you lead people to be the best that they can be. To me, that authenticity is not necessarily about corporate messages, because the people that have the ability to take people with them are the people that are trusted and are authentic. They have very honest conversations around where things need to be.

If I had to put it down to one thing and one word, I would say authenticity is one of the most important things.

BG: Yeah, I guess people are more likely to believe in and get in behind someone who they feel personally, or in a business sense, has their back, that you’ll be listened to, and that you have the chance to thrive on your own as well as within a collective. That’s really important, isn’t it?

Authenticity is key in a sector with little appetite for BS.

CP: It is. I think I was asked a question by the board when I was going through the interview process for this role. They asked me a question around what are the things you’re most proud of in your career. I said to them, and I was very genuine around this, it’s not an event or something, there’s been lots of those. But what I’m most proud of is the people I’ve had the opportunity to work with and the things that we’ve been able to achieve together. To me, that’s the important part of leadership, because when you work with teams and people, and you achieve something you didn’t think was possible, that’s inspirational.

I remember one person that I worked with externally who used to often say, the biggest limitations are those that we put on ourselves. I think we’re all a lot more capable of things from a leadership perspective than what we think we are. It’s through time and experience that you gage those things and you learn from them. If you’re a continuous learner, you want to continue to grow as a human being – I think if you can do that and do that well, then leadership can be really enjoyed and enjoyable

BG: You don’t know what you’re capable of until you give it a go, I guess. That lifelong learning thing.

CP: And sometimes you’re put into situations that are really challenging. Ultimately, you have to be prepared to make a decision and then live with those decisions, but you also need to be, I think, open enough to reflect on and admit when you didn’t get things right or be vulnerable enough to then change. Because, again, back to that point around authenticity and trust, that gives people the ability to trust you and then come with you.

The one thing I would say in our sector, in agriculture, and particularly with farmers, they’re pretty good at reading the ‘BS’ barometer, and that level of authenticity is incredibly important.

Remaining positive about the Sector’s future.

BG: Now, you mentioned you talked to the Kellogg cohort earlier in the year about some of the issues in our food production sector at the moment. Obviously, it’s been a time of rapid change. We’ve had global events, pandemics, that sort of thing, and also lots of regulation come down from government in the previous term. What do you think is the path going forward? How do we align ourselves to make sure we’re doing the best we can do for our sector?

CP: I think one of the things that we really need to make sure that we continue to do is respect all the really good work that have been done by farmers. This is something that’s really important. It’s not just dairy farmers, that’s all farmers. When I look across the Sector and I look at the progress that farmers have made over the last 10 years, we’re in a very different place today than what we were 10 years ago, particularly when you go to things like on-farm practices, and in the environmental space. You get into animal welfare, all those really important, which are quite big global topics and are not going to go away.

It’s really important that as a sector, we continue to have progress around that because it’s expected, whether it be from global players who buy our products or consumers, ultimately. But equally, when you talk to farmers, farmers care deeply about animals on the land, and they ultimately want to leave it better than what they found it. I think hope around that is really important. This sector contributes so strongly to New Zealand from a GDP, but it’s not just that. It’s not just the financial, it’s the communities.

When farming is doing well, communities thrive, and when communities thrive, towns do well. The whole impact on our nation is incredibly important. Yes, we’ve had some tough times. We’ll go through cycles, and we always have in terms of economic cycles and political cycles. But I think we’ve got to have the courage to continue to be passionate and positive about what our future is, because the world needs high-quality food produced in a way that’s sustainable for the environment.

Our farmers ultimately also need economic returns for that to remain viable themselves. It’s an industry that I certainly find not hard to get out of bed every day and get excited about because it’s got a really, really important role to play.

BG: Just a year or two back, it seemed we had a bit of a flash point, I guess, in terms of rural leadership. It was over the emissions pricing process. A lot of farmers and people in rural communities got the feeling that they hadn’t been communicated to well enough by the people who were advocating for them inside the beltway. That led to changes in leadership in various places. That communication and gaining and representing a mandate, that seems to be really important as you go and represent your community outside of it, if you know what I mean.

Learning from the past.

CP: I agree, and I think it is. I think the reality is if you’re talking around things like He Waka Eke Noa processes and things like that. Look, a lot of people put a lot of effort into those processes and tried to communicate things. Unfortunately, there was a bit of a void, and I think it’s important we learn from that because out of that comes this distrust and this concern around what are we advocating for.

It’s interesting because since being in the role, I’ve talked to a lot of dairy farmers, and a lot of farmers have raised that issue with me. When you reflect back on it and say, well, the alternative was we went straight into the ETS, we ended up with pricing, and we didn’t end up with a split gas approach, do you think we should have played that role? They unequivocally say, Absolutely, you should have. Somehow it got lost in translation. I think we do have to learn and reflect on that. I think we do have a role, particularly as industry good organisations to stand up and be clear about what we do stand for and be prepared to take a leadership position.

I know that from my predecessors and people in the business, that absolutely was the case. Somehow that got lost.

Getting the mojo back.

BG: You mentioned farming being not just a driver of economic wealth, but of social well-being. Often when you hear about farming, though, outside of the likes of the Farmer’s Weekly or that sort of thing, it seems to be always on the defensive, if you know what I mean? Farmers have been accused of this and here’s such-and-such from Federated Farmers to defend themselves. It seems we need to maybe front foot things a bit more and believe in what we are and what we bring and that sort of thing and change the conversation a little bit?

CP: I think as farmers and the industry, should be incredibly proud of what we do as a sector. Also, and look, times are tough. When you look directionally through and not just at the financial, the impact that the sector has on communities, people growing, schools, all those things should not be lost sight of.

If I cast my mind forward, I’m 54, if I go back to when I left school in 1987, post the share market crash, everyone said the agricultural sector was a sunset industry. It has certainly not played out that way, and it’s been really, really important for New Zealand. If I cast my mind then forward, I go, absolutely, will it be important in 15- or 20-years’ time? Absolutely. Can we balance both environmental and profitable outcomes? Absolutely. Lots of farmers are doing that. But somehow, we have to try and have a positive voice and get our mojo back.

BG: It does relate to a top-down approach with the likes of Government regulation, that leaves farmers in a place where they don’t feel in control of their own destiny. They’re being given rules with no contextual meaning. Whereas if, say, the likes of the current process of driven plans around scope-three emissions, they lead to premiums. There’s information from customers around the ‘why’. That seems to be a better way to do things in some ways.

CP: I think you’ve always got to understand the context of what you’re trying to drive in. Self-regulation is always better than regulation. I think as an industry, we’ve got to take responsibility for our role to play in those pieces. We’re signed up to things like the Paris Accord. That’s all okay. We’ve just got to make sure that we are contributing and take ownership for our issues.

I think one of the observations I would make, Bryan, in talking with politicians, whether it be regionally or centrally now, is they don’t only want to know what the problems are, they want to know what the solutions are.

We see ourselves as being part of those solutions. But to your point, when people are uncertain, and that’s why we need enduring policy, that’s fear and pragmatic and can be implemented. We did get too much complexity into some of that space. Some of that’s got to be undone. But we need enduring policy that also gives farmers confidence to invest in the things that they need and to continue the direction of travel. If we don’t have that, then it becomes very hard. Confidence is a really important part of anyone’s psyche.

When you feel good about what you’re doing and you’re upbeat about where things are going, you’re more likely to have a positive mindset.

Kellogg - for leaders who want to make a difference.

BG: Just going back to your work with the Kellogg Programme, that must have been… I’ve been to a couple of their alumni events, and they’re amazing events because they’re just full of a wide range of people from all different backgrounds, all different professions. But they’re all just incredibly excited about the Programme, about being with each other and what they’re doing. How did you find it?

CP: They’re always energising. You get in a room with this year’s intake. In January, there was probably 20 people in the room. They’re all passionate about what they do. They ask good questions, which is good and challenging. But they’re there for a reason because they want to make a difference, ultimately.

They also want to challenge themselves to grow as leaders. I think any of those programmes that galvanise people towards that, but more importantly, that self-reflection around where you are and how do you grow and how do you learn from others, is a really good thing to be part of.

The alumni piece around how they continue to connect themselves up; I talked with one of our directors, Tracy Brown, and she remembers doing Kellogg 20 years ago, when she was in her early 20s, and the people she went through at that point. She’s gone on to do a Nuffield and sits on our board, and sits on a number of boards. Some of that started with Kellogg. I think that’s where sometimes the passion gets ignited, but they get drawn to do the Programme, generally, because they’re drawn towards doing it for a deeper personal reason.

BG: Thanks for listening to Ideas that Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast in partnership with Massey and Lincoln Universities, AGMARDT, and FoodHQ. This podcast was presented by Farmers Weekly.

John Daniell Memorial Trust – supporting Kellogg.

The John Daniell Memorial Trust has kindly agreed to support two Kellogg Rural Leadership course participants annually.

This support comes in the form of two scholarships per year of $5,000.

Successful applicants will be expected to present to the trust either in person or online within three months of the conclusion of their Kellogg research project.

Learn more about the Trust and applicant eligibility below.

Aims of the trust.
To perpetuate John Daniell’s enthusiasm, love and philosophy in all aspects of pastoral farming.

To further promote and assist in achieving his long-held objective of increasing research effort into hill country and pastoral farming.

To recognise John Daniell’s significant contribution to the NZ farming industry.

Objectives of the trust.
To encourage or promote any idea, activity or project that is seen as capable of furthering understanding, knowledge or appreciation of any aspect of farming practice.

To encourage places of learning, person, organisations or government departments to participate in research and demonstration associated with specific farming projects.

To provide and/or assist in the provision of scholarships, bursaries, lectures, seminars, trophies and other benefits of incentives.

To promote research and demonstration of means of achieving the maximum volume and value of products consistent with the maintenance of a high standard of animal and pasture management.

To promote research and the demonstration of management systems to enable pastoral farmers to achieve optimum production and profitability on an ongoing basis.

The advancement of education in the farming of pastoral property.

To invest in any farming resource which will enable the research and demonstration of modern farming practices.

Eligibility.
1). Scholarships will be awarded to those who are focused on practical pastoral livestock farming or leadership in the pastoral livestock farming

2). Preference is be given to participants from the Wairarapa region in the first instance

3). Applicants must be NZ citizens

4). Applications to be lodged with the intended start date of the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme

5). The scholarship will be paid by the trust direct into the applicants nominated bank account at the commencement of the course.

Applications.
Applications for a John Daniell Memorial Trust Scholarship to attend Kellogg Programme One 2026, will need to be submitted to Delwyn Pringle at the email below by Sunday 5 October 2025.

NB. You will need to submit your Kellogg application by this date as well. Please indicate on your application that you are applying for this scholarship.

To start the process please email Trust Secretary Delwyn Pringle for an application form at delwyn@bakerag.co.nz

New Energy – The 2024 Nuffield Biennial Conference.

New Energy, the 2024 Nuffield Biennial Conference.

There’s just a little over a month to go until the Nuffield Biennial begins.

Open to Nuffield alumni and their partners, this key event runs 23-26 May.

The Nuffield Biennial features a stellar line up of new technology and innovation, networking opportunities and the best produce from the Taranaki region. Take a look at the planned schedule below.

Contact Annie Chant at Anniechant@ruralleaders.co.nz for any queries.

Or book here now.

The Conference schedule at a glance.

Arrival Day (Thursday 23 May)
2022 Scholar presentations and panel.
Drinks and networking dinner.

Day Two (Friday 24 May)
2020, 2021 Scholar presentations and panel.

Field Trips
Option One, Energy supply chain
Ross Dingle (CEO) Port of Taranaki site visit, Q&A energy sector leaders.

Option Two, Branching out
Michelle Bauer, Venture Taranaki.
Medicinal and Botanic growth followed by a visit to the Marae for a presentation with Meat to You and Michelle Bauer on Taranaki’s regional diversity.

Option Three
Taranaki Gardens visit with Ainsley Luscombe.

Later – Gin tasting with Juno Gin and buffet dinner.

Day Three (Saturday 25 May)
2023 Scholar presentations and panel.

Field Trips
Option One, Emissions and Efficiency
Rotary Cow Shed – Shane Arden.
Solar on Farm – Philip Luscombe, Matt and Roger.
Nestle Net Zero pilot dairy farm – Dairy Trust Taranaki.

Option Two, Got Milk
PKW Sheep Milk –Spring Sheep Milk.
Tawhiti Museum.

Later – Egmont Honey talk, seated dinner and band ‘Avalanche’.

Nuffield Biennial details at a glance.

Where: The Devon Hotel, New Plymouth (we have held some rooms here, though these are booking out).
When: Starts 3pm, Thursday, 23 May.
Register below by Wednesday, 1 May.

Fee: Registration is $475 + GST. Registration fee includes most catering, field trips and the Conference.

The Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme has been developing leaders for the rural and agri-food sector since 1979.

Key Information

Our Alumni

2026 Applications

The Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarship is one of the most valued awards in New Zealand’s primary sector.

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Our Alumni

2027 Applications

Innovating for our fast-changing value chains.

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2027 Applications

Fast-track your food and fibre skills, knowledge, and confidence.

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2026 Applications

Develop horticulture-specific leadership knowledge and skills.

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Episode Transcript

Lisa’s Journey and Passion for the Food and Fibre Sector

Genetic technologies and the Kellogg research report

Kellogg research process and key findings

Legislation and Global Considerations

The Kellogg Experience and Future Outlook

A Transformative Leadership Experience

Bringing a global perspective to New Zealand food and fibre.

Managing, leading, and stewardship.

A background into how a Māori Land Incorporation works.

Kaitiakitanga – guardianship/stewardship. Adopting the long term view.

Kellogg and Kaitiakitanga as a pathway to enduring prosperity.

Can you have alignment between Kaitiakitanga and propseprous business?

Three recommendations to include Kaitiakitana principles into business.

Kaitiakitanga - universal principles for a long term view.

The Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme.

The Netherlands’ loss, New Zealand’s gain.

LIC research into heat stress in cattle.

Kellogg research into genetics’ social licence to operate.

The Kellogg research insights.

Food security and farming systems – Netherlands vs New Zealand.

Connecting with the Kellogg network.

Well qualified to share insights on resilience.

Then out of that experience, I got told I was a resilient character for bouncing back from adversity, and I didn’t really think I was that particularly resilient, and I didn’t think I knew what I was talking about – talking about resilience to a group. I felt everybody faces adversity.

Thriving in the face of adversity.

Purpose, why, and connection.

Telling the resilience story.

Resilience in a time of rapid change.

A sense of purpose.

Kellogg and life on Mt. Nicholas Station.

A new report that aims to help solve an old challenge.

Leadership development programmes and pathways.

Horticulture New Zealand Leadership Programme, the Value Chain Programme and Engage.

Rural Leaders provides tools for leadership development.

With good leadership, people stay.

A Nuffield Scholar with a background in many industries.

Halfway through a Nuffield Scholarship.

The Nuffield Contemporary Scholars Conference (CSC).

The Nuffield Global Focus Programme (GFC).

GFC - first stop Indonesia.

Nuffield GFC – France.

Nuffield GFC – Denmark.

Nuffield GFC – California.

California - the water scarcity challenge.

Nuffield GFC – Chile.

What’s next on the Nuffield Scholarship Programme?

The 2025 Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarship applications close 18 August.

Sharing leadership experiences with Kellogg scholars.

Leading well starts with understanding yourself.

Authenticity is key in a sector with little appetite for BS.

Remaining positive about the Sector’s future.

Learning from the past.

Getting the mojo back.

Kellogg - for leaders who want to make a difference.

The Conference schedule at a glance.

Nuffield Biennial details at a glance.

Rural Leader Newsletter