You’ve joined the Ideas That Grow podcast, brought to you by Rural Leaders. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas That Grow is presented in Association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly:
Welcome to Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I’m Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of the Farmers Weekly, and we have a very special guest this time to see out 2025. It is the outgoing, as we now know, Chief Executive of Rural Leaders, Lisa Rogers. Kia ora Lisa, how’re you going?

LR: Lisa Rogers, CEO Rural Leaders:
Kia ora, Bryan. I’m going really well, thank you, as we head into the final phase of what has been another really productive year for Rural Leaders.

BG: Now, you’ve been with the organisation more than a decade, and about two and a half of as the Chief Executive, how does it feel to be stepping away?

On Rural Leaders and Kellogg.

But at the same time, really excited for moving into a new chapter for myself, but also know that the team is just in such a great spot in the organisation as well. I think that’s one of the best legacies that any leader can leave, is knowing that the organisation can just keep hurtling along in a way that’s actually going to make everyone proud of what we’re doing.

BG: My apologies there. I added a couple of years to your age.

BG: Now, I’m a member of the alumni. I can tell that we do age people prematurely.

LR: You had an awesome time as a Kellogger. How have you found that experience afterwards? How did it change you, Bryan?

BG: It changed me massively, to be honest. You have a narrow view of yourself and what you’re good at, and you don’t know whether that can translate into bigger things, I guess. The course, the specific things you learn, but also just the talking to people and meeting people and that thing, it makes you realise that, yes, you can do big things, and actually that skill set that you have is really valuable. Yeah, no, it’s really cool.

On potential.

LR: Yeah, the amount of personal growth that we see in people is extraordinary. And that’s the biggest satisfaction that I take out of all of my time is watching these people who, in my opinion, like buds of a flower where they’re just all potential. And they actually realise that going through. But a lot of them, it’s happening so slowly that they don’t always realise until they get to the end. And then they reflect and they go, wow. And it’s that sense of being able to have self-confidence in that being self-aware is what we absolutely love in our programmes, and actually for the sector as well.

I think a lot of our people in Food and Fibre are a fairly low key about their own ability, and they may not have always been in environments where that’s actually been celebrated or highlighted. To be able to bring that out in people is just extraordinary and show them that they’ve got all this value and knowledge to contribute as well, which is cool. As an aside, we often do a survey on who’s doing what around the sector.

Alum from our programmes are just hugely represented in leadership positions throughout food and fibre sector, which is really important because otherwise, we will have the same people being, dare I say, worked to death slowly.

It’s massively important for these people to be coming through and have the confidence to start stepping up into roles where it could be governance, it could be politics, it could be leadership in an organisation, all sorts of things that they can contribute towards. So it’s wonderful.

On productive discussion and debate.

BG: One of the other key things, I think maybe I think about it more because of my job as a journalist, but the programmes create an environment where you can, for want of a better phrase, argue with compassion, if you know what I mean. You can thrash out these big challenges. Everyone’s coming from a different place, but everyone respects everyone else.

LR: Yeah, I think setting the ground rules nice and early around that in our programmes, but also the people that are selected to attend these programmes as well. They have a little bit more of that social understanding of how to actually do that. Having what are really productive conversations and debates, but everyone can go out and have a beer at the end of the day, is such a mature and enlightened way of being able to thrash out these ideas, because if we can’t do that, then everyone just sits in their own little corners, don’t they? And we get nothing done as a sector. I suppose underlying that is collaboration, really, isn’t it? But it’s without actually using collaboration as the word. It’s just inherent in everything that we actually do, which is so good.

BG: I guess related to that, most people are pretty familiar with the Kellogg and the Nuffield programmes. But of course, that discovering new perspectives on our world and our food production sector, that really fits into some of the other programmes you have, like the Value Chain Programme.

On Rural Leaders’ recent history.

LR: So when I reflect, as I am at the moment. I started nine years ago, Anne Hindson, who set up New Zealand Rural Leadership Trust as the first CE, did an amazing job of bringing together two of our most iconic programmes in the sector, so Nuffield Farming Scholarships and the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme. Both of them had been going for a long time.

We’ve just celebrated 75 years of Nuffield Farming Scholarships in New Zealand. They needed a bit of a refresh in being able to bring in both programmes together gave them a new lease of life, as it were. I started working with Anne, and that was an amazing opportunity to start from the ground up with an organisation. And then as we’ve gone along, we had Chris Parsons join us in 2020, and he pushed the accelerator, on that and said, there’s more that you can do, and gave us the vision to actually see how that could be possible. That was awesome as well to start accelerating at quite a swift rate of knots. But since then, and under my tenure, we now run five different programmes in the calendar year.

Kellogg gets run twice, and then we do quite a few bespoke programmes as well. Those bespoke ones are usually a spin-off of what our Engage programme is. It is a joint venture with us in Lincoln University, and that is all around capability for people coming into the sector, but it’s also about continuous learning and improvement for different organisations throughout the sector as well.

We’re doing some really neat stuff around that that’s short and sweet, so different to our longer, traditional programmes. There’s a real need for that in the sector. We’ve got all the fantastic contacts and people who give us their time because they value what Rural Leaders does. I think that’s one of our biggest legacies that we’ve got, is that people understand the value of what we do.

On collaboration.

So as a result, we’ve got this amazing stable of programmes, and we love working with other organisations as well. So every now and again, we get the opportunity to partner up with some of our other friends in the sector or offer opportunities to attend our programme as ways of increasing that applying for newer people into the sector, for example, working with Young Farmers, Federated Farmers, and Dairy Women’s Network.

Having this big ecosystem or a whanau is It’s amazing for us to get to know all these different people. There’s room for all of us in the sector. Nearly 380,000 people in the sector. I think if you can’t find a space in a niche for everything, then there’s something really fundamentally wrong. We fully get that. Times are tough at times for our producers. The first thing that can often have a line put through it is training and development. We get that because sometimes it really does come down to those last few dollars.

I think most people understand the value of what we’re doing. To our credit in the sectors as well, and our investing partners with whom we literally couldn’t do this without them. We’ve seen through COVID, we’ve seen through tough times out there for return on farm, and people are still valuing that development and that leadership training and experience people are getting through our programmes.

BG: One amazing thing I’ve just clarified in my head, you do these big projects as part of the Kellogg or Nuffield Programme. As someone who’s done post-grad tertiary qualifications before, that’s all well and good, but with the Kellogg Project, especially, it seems like it’s just not for you because you’re contributing to a pool. It has ramifications for your small wedge of the pie, the bit of food production you work in, and for the sector as a whole. It’s more you’re doing it for something bigger than your own.

On alumni and their research.

LR: Too right, Bryan. We see our alumni and our reports as our two biggest treasures of troves, as it were. Actually, one of the team, Matt Hampton, did a bit of digging the other day and realised that we’re in the top five (holders) of rural research reports that are sitting with any one organisation in New Zealand.

They’re free for everyone to access. They’re sitting there on our websites, and a lot of them are incredibly topical years after being written. The way for us to keep pushing those and making sure that they’re available and through different tools that we’ve got available on our system is extraordinary.

There’s about 1,500 alumni in total for the Rural Leaders programmes, which when you think that Nuffield has had about 194/195 in total in 75 years, It just goes to show it’s a pretty special group of people. We don’t like to think of ourselves as being in any way exclusive or anything, but we are special. The value that our alumni get over the years when they reflect on that is something that we’re seeing through people approaching us for legacy payments and gifting as well, which you get that at a university level.

You don’t always see that in our programme that you’ve done with an organisation. We are incredibly thrilled to be able to be part of that. But in my nine years, I reflect, I’ve had direct contact or seen over 400 Kelloggers go through. I’ve had at least 40 Nuffielders do their programmes as well, and countless others for Value Chain and Engage and the HortNZ Leadership Programme. The touch points with our alumni are incredibly important and very special to me. It’s been quite a, not bittersweet, but satisfying to think that we’ve had a really positive impact on so many people around the country.

BG: I guess looking big picture, given some recent struggles in terms of big challenges in our sector, there has been a lot of naval gazing about how we develop leaders, how do you go about it? Do we set our future leaders up well to succeed or do the people who give them the mandate, understand what they’re doing, all these big things. Obviously, Rural Leaders is one of the big pipelines of leadership skills and strategies, that sort of thing. What’s your take on where we’re sitting at the moment?

LR: I think it’s always going to be something that needs focus continually. You can’t take your foot off the accelerator. To bring people through into those leadership roles is vital. I also believe strongly, but in a really positive way, that our Māori scholars are also in demand.

We need a lot more of our fantastic Māori Kellogg and Nuffield Scholars to step up into these roles and encourage that, but they will do that in their own way in their own time. We’re here to support, of course.

BG: I guess I speak for every person who’s done a Kellogg or a Nuffield to say thank you for your leadership of the programmes over time and wish you best in whatever you choose to do next.

LR: I’m laughing with some of my friends and saying I’m having a gap year at last. But no, certainly we’ll be looking to be back into it again by April, May. That’s when I’ve got something organised. But in the meantime, going to be enjoying a fabulous summer off. And those who know me all know that that probably involves a bit of golf and lots of time with family and friends. So couldn’t be happier. But also my team here know that if they ever need to know where something is or something that they were thinking about a while back, they can always ring me.

But yeah, I’ll definitely leave with a lovely smile on my face because I know that the organisation is in great heart and thriving. Yeah, so awesome.

BG: Excellent. Thanks, Lisa.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders’ podcast presented in Association with Farmers Weekly. For more information on Rural Leaders, the Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarship, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, the Engage Programme and the Value Chain Innovation Programme, please visit ruralleaders.co.nz.

You’ve joined the Ideas That Grow podcast, brought to you by Rural Leaders. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas That Grow is presented in Association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly:
I’m your host, Farmers Weekly editor, Bryan Gibson. This week, we’re talking about one of the specialist programmes Rural Leaders offers, the Engage programme run in conjunction with Lincoln University.

With me to discuss it is Dr. Victoria Westbrooke. Kia ora, how are you going?

Dr. Victoria Westbrooke, Senior Lecturer Department of Land Management and Systems, Lincoln University:
Great, thanks.

BG: Good. You’re a senior lecturer at Lincoln. What do you focus on there and what’s your work like?

VW: I’m only focused on farm management. I teach both undergraduate and postgraduate level. I also really enjoy teaching a class on consultancy and extension, again, at the undergrad and postgrad level. That class is really about students being able to use the information they’ve got at Lincoln and work with farmers and others to put their knowledge into practise when they leave Lincoln and to go out into the real world to work.

BG: What was your journey to Lincoln like? What’s your career background?

VW: Well, I actually did my degree at Lincoln a few years ago now. I then spent the first 10 years working as a farm consultant in the Waikato and then worked with AgResearch. So, helping translate science and research into practise. I enjoyed helping farmers reach objectives and just seeing that translation. I think New Zealand is really good at that, and it was great to be a part of it.

The next 10 years was cool. That was overseas. I spent a couple of years in UK, having a look at UK farming systems and indulging in my passion of travel. We then moved to Australia, where I did my PhD and had a look at some farm systems there, which were completely different, merging on tropical systems.

For the last 10 years or so, I’ve been lecturing at Lincoln, again in farm management and extension and doing some research on the side as well. I enjoy working with students and seeing their journeys as they grow.

BG: Did you always know that the food and fibre sector would be where you would work?

VW: I guess so. I really enjoy growing things. I’m a keen gardener and have this most wonderful garden at home, which I’m very lucky for. Love seeing people grow too, seeing ideas work on farms, love seeing farmers get where they want go. That sort of thing gives me a real kick.

A partnership to develop stronger connections with farmers.

BG: Rural Leaders has a pretty close relationship with Lincoln University. Tell me a little bit about how Lincoln contributes to the Rural Leaders programmes.

VW: I guess I can talk about the Engage one as a specific example. What I saw is we had a need for some really good professionals in the sector that may not necessarily have had a farm background. I’m talking about technology people, some researchers, environmental people. I thought, how can we welcome them into the sector and give them some background or context to New Zealand farming systems to turbocharge the knowledge and expertise that they already have. How can we help them to apply it.

When I was working on that, I thought Rural Leaders would be the ideal group to work with. They’ve got a good track record. I found them really excellent. We could sit down throw ideas around. That’s how it worked for me in my situation was just having their expertise, a very strong track record, strongly networked into the industry. For me, they were the ideal partner.

BG: Yeah, I guess one of the key challenges that our food and fibre sector has is that there’s often a feeling among farmers in the field that some of the bureaucrats or other people who are agribusiness professionals or at least having an input into how farming is done in New Zealand, some of them don’t have that knowledge of what it’s like to actually implement these things in the field every day.

Knowledge, confidence and connection in agriculture.

VW: The people that we’ve worked with through Engage, who have participated, are keen to work with farmers and help them work well in New Zealand Inc. That passion is really there. Part of this programme is, how can we help them with some of that context in a way that suits their professional lifestyle and their professional requirements and get them connecting directly with farmers, not through two or three other links.

Some form of experiencing the farmer’s challenges. Initially, I had thoughts of participants spending a day with a farmer in their ute. I’m not sure that was particularly practical for everybody. Again, working with rural leaders, we were able to mould that working with farmers and talking directly with farmers into a three-day, doable programme for everyone that got some of that close connection.

For example, one of the participants was actually staying with me. She came from Wellington, hadn’t spent a lot of time on farms, and simply getting her rugged up to go out for a day on farm in July – she experienced the environment the farmer worked in. Simply making sure she had gloves, hat, mittens, and that kind of thing. That was something that you can’t read about or doesn’t normally land if you read about it. But if you’re going out for a day, it does.

BG: You mentioned people being Wellington-based. A lot of people who are decision-makers or policymakers, that sort of thing, are in the cities. Having that first-hand experience of the farming life must make them a lot more confident or at least know that their day-to-day work will land better with those who are having to implement it.

VW: Yeah, it just provided a real background and that lived experience. We’ve got the Engage programme at three days. The key is the middle day, actually going on farm. They’ve spent a day working together in a discussion group format that Rural Leaders does very well. Then it’s onto a bus and going out to our wonderful host farmer. We’ve had Malcolm Cairns and Hamish Marr. The morning’s out on a mixed arable operation, family-based. Then the afternoon has been going out to Matt Iremonger’s which is more of a focus on dairy and technology.

On one of our first programmes, a lot of the participants were just quite keen to do a bit of calf feeding. We were going to talk about some really high-brow stuff. They saw the calves and they really enjoyed it. Seeing Matt operate Halter, we turned up when the cows were to go for milking. We stood in the paddock and Matt and his manager at the time were driving halter and we could see it. Seeing it then talking about the people who are actually working with it, seeing the cow’s reaction, just that really one-to-one or based experience is really important and really enjoyable.

What to expect from the Engage Programme.

BG: If someone signs up for the Engage programme, maybe just talk through what they can expect when they’re doing it.

VW: Firstly, it’s a really welcoming environment that Rural Leaders provides. It’s facilitated. There’s lots of discussions. It’s not a talk at or dare I say lecture type environment. We definitely didn’t want that. These people are professionals with really impressive skills and expertise. It’s more of a discussion, not a ‘talk to’.

Rural Leaders, through their networks, have got some excellent people for the first day, providing an overview of the global perspective of agriculture. We’ve got some people that wear both a farmer hat and professional hat talking about challenges farmers faced.

Then I talk about farming systems and farm finances. This is very much from the farmer perspective, and as much as possible, there’s people that are actually farmers and involved in there. We’re talking about the whole Ag sector. Often, we work in our own particular area that we’re passionate about. I like Ag extension and consultancy type things, but it’s important to look at the whole package because farmers are faced with a whole package, not just fertiliser, which we may work in, or environment that we may work in. Often, there’s a group dinner, and the discussions there are probably just as important as those held during the day.

Participants have actually met people from different parts of the sector as well. The highlight for me has always been the day on farm, which I’ve just briefly discussed. So out in the bus, take lunch, and talking directly with the farmers. We go and have morning tea with them. They take us around their farm. The farmers are experienced talking to groups, but they’re still at the coalface. Those visits tend to go a little bit into the areas that participants are interested in. The final day is two-thirds of a day. There’s a talk about reflection about what they found on farm, Māori land ownership and perspectives. That’s a really good session. Then we talk about rural communities. The reason for that is, again, looking at the whole picture that farmers are sitting within not just one particular aspect. Then there’s finishing up looking at environmental consulting, but that can vary depending on the group.

Looking at the whole farming system.

BG: You mentioned the rural communities. That’s really important because I think some people sitting off remotely would view a farm as a set of financial budgets or a catchment for nutrients and water cycling and that sort of thing. But in actual fact, it’s a place where a family lives. There are neighbours, there are schools, there are rugby clubs. Those things are what sustains farming communities.

VW: Yeah, it’s that whole system, that environment, looking at it, that’s really important. I think we get passionate about as a profession, our own particular area. This is a chance to look at the whole system from a farmer’s perspective. You may get an appreciation of where your particular passion area sits within the farmer’s world type thing. Why are they not as passionate as you about your area? Well, this is where it sits for a farmer and how it fits with their bigger thing.

We had one person who is looking at offering a technology service on farm, and he went away delighted because he could then see where his technology offering could fit for farmers, what from a farmer’s perspective might spin their wheels, save them time, whatever. He said, Okay, he will now develop his offering in that way to fit more with what a farmer may actually want. He understood why they may be reluctant to take his technology offering from his business.

BG: That’s amazing because you see it time and again, someone turns up with what they feel is like the latest game-changing bit of tech that’s going to change farming. But when it actually comes to implementing it on farm, they perhaps haven’t had that close contact to know if it’s working in with the other things that happen day to day on a farm.

VW: Yeah, it’s this massive load of cogs all in to react and big clockwork mechanism in an old analogue clock. They all interweave together.

Looking closer at the Engage Programme.

BG: One of the things that comes up-time and again in these chats I have with people who have been involved in Rural Leaders programmes is that the course itself is great, but one of the great pieces of value you get from it is the network and the connections you make while you’re on the course. That seems to be the case here, too.

VW: It’s not as long as Kellogg or some of the other courses. It is a three-day course. That was deliberate because when we did our initial research, we got strong feedback that because it’s a face-to-face course, we had to recognise the time limitations people have in professional life. That’s why we came up with the three-day programme because we did want to keep it face-to-face.

Rural leaders are passionate about that, which I agree with, because then you can actually talk directly to people. I think the group dinner and the way that it’s facilitated lets people meet from different aspects. We’ve had people that have reconnected or got a list of people that if they need somebody in this different area, they now have somebody that they can contact to do that. So, yeah, that’s another important part of sharing.

BG: When we pull back and look at the bigger picture of New Zealand’s food and fibre sector, we are having big conversations about how to develop people into leadership roles. Sometimes you can look at it as there’s farmers who come up through industry bodies, and there’s agribusiness professionals who maybe have a more academic path. The Engage system, to me, seems to be a way to bring that together.

VW: Yeah, it’s, again, the people that are passionate about the food and fibre sector have some wonderful skills and knowledge that we very much need. I’m really hoping we’ll provide them with the confidence to go on to some of those leadership roles with just that wee bit more contextual knowledge or the farmer’s view.

The other thing is some people coming on the programme work with one particular group of farmers, and this is, again, just broadening out for that background and context. So hopefully, it’s part of their leadership journey. They also know how Rural Leaders operate then through the programme, so they can have a taster of what our future work with Rural Leaders may look like. That’s useful as well, I think.

BG: Yeah, I guess it gives people a bit more empathy with the people who might be end users of either the product or the policy that they are working on, you get a better understanding of how that lands, what that means for someone’s day-to-day life, that thing.

If someone’s keen in finding out more about the Engage programme or perhaps signing up, what’s the next step for them?

VW: Rural Leaders They have an excellent website, and they have all of the details there. My understanding is the Engage programme will be running next year.

The other option is Rural Leaders have customised the programme and can do so for particular groups. For ASB, they work with their rural managers who really wanted to focus on environmental aspects. They took out the day on farm because those rural managers are constantly out on farm. That programme was adapted for them. They’ve also worked with the Ellett Trust and other groups there to develop a programme specifically for scientists and researchers to communicate with farmers. That customisation option is available as well.

BG: Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders’ podcast presented in Association with Farmers Weekly. For more information on Rural Leaders, the Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarship, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, the Engage Programme and the Value Chain Innovation Programme, please visit ruralleaders.co.nz.

You’ve joined the Ideas That Grow podcast, brought to you by Rural Leaders. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas That Grow is presented in Association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly:
You’ve probably heard of the Nuffield and the Kellogg Programmes, but Rural Leaders has some other programmes it administers as well. One of those is the Value Chain Innovation Programme, which is open for applications until 23 November. The programme runs in early February (2026).

With me to talk about the programme today is Richard Green, who did it earlier this year. Richard, how’s it going?

Richard Green, 2025 Value Chain Innovation Programme.
Cool, thanks, Bryan.

BG: Tell me a little bit about yourself. What do you do for a crust? Where do you live? 

A diverse background in and out of food and fibre.

RG: I live just out of Christchurch, actually, in a little place called Ladbrooks, which is just on the edge of the town boundary on a few acres. But I’ve had a really interesting career to date Bryan. I’ve done lots of things, but I spent the first 10 years of my career as a farm consultant, working in the farm gate, helping businesses achieve their objectives and family farming businesses, generally.

Then the next 10 years of my career was pretty much involved beyond the farm gate, and I was involved quite deeply in the seed industry. We owned a company called Agricom, a couple of us, and we ended up selling that into PGG Wrightson Seeds. Then I ran the international business for PGG Wrightson Seeds for about five years.

Then the next The next 10 years, a bit longer actually, if I’m honest, perhaps the next 15 years, I’ve stepped out of day to day, been involved in businesses, and ended up doing a lot of governance and working across a large number of businesses. Those mainly in the agri and food sector, but a few not-for-profits and a few outside agriculture.

We’ve been deeply involved in retirement villages and commercial property and honey businesses as well, my wife and I.

BG: Yeah, so quite a diverse background. One of those governance roles you had was with Rural Leaders.

RG: Yeah, correct. When I left PGG Wrightson Seeds to stay connected with a lot of networks, I actually applied for a role. Nuffield at the time were advertising for a CE, and I applied for that role for a day a week. I did that for three years and then was involved with the trustees and pulling Kellogg into the Rural Leaders’ framework and setting up Rural Leaders. And then I was on the board for a few years after that with Rural Leaders.

I was also involved in AGMARDT and in FAR, as trustee in AGMARDT and then director on FAR, Foundation Arable Research. And both those are quite involved in Kellogg, particularly. And to speak with a lot of Kelloggers doing their projects, I think it’s absolutely fascinating, they have such good insights they get as to how the industry operates and where the opportunities are for them to add value to.

BG: The Value Chain Programme, a lot of people might not know a lot about it. That obviously offers in-depth insights into how our food and fibre sector operates, doesn’t it?

Why do the Value Chain Innovation Programme?

RG: Yes, and probably, Bryan, the more time I spend in the industry, the more I realise that we can do so much within the farmgate, and I still believe there’s lots of opportunities to improve there with technology. But a lot of the growth and the value that we can create will actually be beyond the farm gate.

The way we set an industry up to succeed, and then the way we get market signals back and align behind behaviour through the whole industry. For me, that’s why the Value Chain course, I decided this time last year, I guess, that it was something I wanted it to do.

I chair the joint venture between Headwaters and Alliance Meats, which forms the Lumina Land Programme. I’m deeply involved in that value chain. I was really looking for insights as to how do other industries operate, what’s best in class look like, even those industries that we are going really well, what would they like to change if they could wave a magic wand? I wanted to learn from everyone else that was going on the same journey as me, and so that’s why I applied.

BG: What’s actually involved when you signed up to the course? What actually happens?

What happens on the Value Chain Innovation Programme?

RG: Well, it was actually even signing up was quite an interesting process, and I assume it’s still the same, but you had to explain yourself, talk about yourself, and what you wanted to achieve out of doing the course. I probably should go back and read that again.

The process started, for us it was slightly earlier, I think this programme’s in February ’26, whereas ours was late January ’25. It involved a week of immersion in businesses and visiting businesses. I think the programme’s basically the same. We met in Hawke’s Bay on a Sunday morning, and we spent the Sunday with Professor Hamish Gow, facilitating a process talking about almost the academic view on value chains and also grounding that with his experience globally.

Those frameworks, and particularly one called the value discipline framework, that has been so helpful for me in the 10 months since then. I’ve used it so frequently as a way of thinking about value chains. Then during the week, we referred back to those models we talked about on that Sunday all the way through.

I think there’s circa 12 or 14 people on the course, all from different parts of New Zealand, all from different industries, all different ages and stages. So, actually learning their story is always a big key part of that.

And then we spent a full-on day looking in Hawke’s Bay at three different Apple businesses operating within the Apple industry, all operating slightly differently. One being TNG Global, one being Rockit, and one being Mr. Apple.

Then we drove all the way through to Rotorua that night on the bus, plus had a diversion or had an accident on the Napier Taupo Road, so we had to sit there for a couple of hours, so, we had plenty of time to talk on the bus. That’s where you really unpick the day and get everyone’s different views.

Then we spent a day and a half looking at the whole kiwifruit industry, right from R&D and new varieties, right on farm, right through the industry issues, biosecurity issues, and then deep into Zespri, or sorry, pack houses before Zespri, and then Zespri as to where their growth opportunities are, where their challenges are, and actually looking at this hugely successful industry, looking at understanding where it came from. It was a deregulated industry in the ’80s, and it was failing.

And then we went over the hill to Waikato, looked at the dairy industry, a deep-dive, the same way we did with kiwifruit, right from R&D, the milk testing station, on-farm, factories, and then where Fonterra is going. It was the Fonterra value chain we studied.

Then we also looked at the meat industry with Greenlea (Premier) Meats, and that was fascinating insight. Then we also talked about technology and how technology could disrupt value chains going forward. Then we had some case study learnings at the end of it. By the time we left on the Saturday, we were inspired, had new ways of thinking, but we were also pretty buggered!

Understanding value chains.

BG: You mentioned it earlier, as you say, lots of farmers or people in food and fibre know a lot about how to produce food on farm, how to grow grass or how to grow kiwifruit or apples, that sort of thing. But once someone comes and picks it up, a lot happens. And understanding how that works and the challenges that those who are processing and marketing our produce face, that’s really good to have a good understanding of that across the It’s a small sector, isn’t it?

RG: Yeah, and I actually now understand better also, Bryan, as a farmer sitting within the farmgate, you also need to understand who you partner with. Because how your partner is setting themselves up to win, and I use this word sitting in yourself up to win quite often because you’ve actually got to work out where your niche is right through the value chain and how you can leverage that niche to be successful. Because the profits can’t flow back to the farm unless your partner in the value chain is successful. There’s different ways of being successful. There’s no one way.

The thing we learned is some are successful because they innovate around products, and Zespri is one of them, and they have unique products, controlled by IP and they’re champions at bringing on new products to solve customer problems.

Some innovate around customers and work back from customers to solve their problems. It might be through consistency of a product or timing of delivery or something. They work back the whole value chain to solve customers’ challenges. Some, which is historically what we’ve been really good at in New Zealand, has been the lowest cost producers and providing value with a certain quality standard for the customer.

And so they are the only three areas you can win in. And the insight was you can be successful in two, but never in three. And so as a farmer, you have to know what’s your partner in the value chain, how they’re aligned themselves to win, and whether that meets what you see as you want to do, because you have to be aligned to a similar value discipline as them. So we don’t do a lot of discussion about that and talking about that because we only look at our part of the value chain.

So I think that’s what I found invaluable, and everyone on the course found invaluable, just that ability to look up and down the whole value chain and actually think about how does everyone win and how could we win far greater together if we actually work together different or better.

BG: It is so important to have that alignment of ideology, I guess. Everyone needs to know where you’re going and what your goals are. Otherwise, if you don’t get that aligned, then the chain breaks.

RG: We find that very much within our Lumina Land Programme. We’re a customer-intimacy type value chain – I worked out. I didn’t actually know that beforehand, but I probably did, but then you have a model to wrap it around. So transparency and alignment around everyone’s goals and financial incentives to align everyone around, that’s pretty important, too.

So I got considerable value and as a side note, Bryan, I always believe, and I absolutely believe, I’ve done a lot of personal development over my career, and I always tell people that there’s a 10 times return on investment. So whatever I invest, I can get 10X on that, I believe, within the next two or three years. I absolutely believe they are this Value Chain (Innovation) Programme.

I got so inspired by it I’ve committed to doing one this next January at Harvard, actually, which is a lot more expensive than the Value Chain programme, but it just has made me realise that the opportunities we’ve got as New Zealand Inc. and farming to actually integrate our value chains better and think a lot more globally.

BG: I actually never thought myself about those three ways to win, but you know it subconsciously. Giving it names and putting models and theory around it is something else again.

Think differently. Get inspired.

RG: The interesting thing is, Bryan, that all our training, my training through Lincoln, and I assume still now, and all our teachings, actually, we’re taught how to perform and operate in the operational excellence space. But it’s actually jumping that chasm and actually working back from customers and thinking of it quite differently, about marketing, about branding and around IP. We lack skills in those areas, and we lack ways to finance some of that, too. So that’s been a limitation to growing some of those business models.

I think we actually need to think a lot more like that and actually work out how we build skills in each of these. To me, there’s no right or wrong value discipline. It’s just whatever you do, you’ve got to do exceptionally well, and you’ve got to be able to carve out a niche and a point of difference from all your competitors by doing it well.

BG: In terms In terms of value chains, we quite often, in our thinking, focus on the food producer and the marketer or last seller at the end of the chain. But those things like processing the packhouses, the packaging, the transport, all that stuff, it’s not very sexy, I guess, but it’s so important.

RG: It’s absolutely critical. I can talk from experience around our Lumina Lamb, which is a partnership between the farmers with their genetics and their farming system, which is a codified farming system and the unique feed we put. Then the processor, which is Alliance Meats, and they’re processing and timely processing, where it’s all forecasted.

Also their ability to process the cuts that were required, to collect the offal when we’re trying to add value on offal and pelts, and then the transportation issues, which are huge on a global basis to get, whether it’s a container or a carton in the market. Then right through to how you partner with, in our case, chefs in food service, and how you get access to that. And yet in a big long chain, one breakdown can absolutely kill the whole chain. And so everyone’s just as important as each other, or it doesn’t work.

BG: It sounds like this programme would suit anyone in food and fibre. Everyone works in their own little space in the chain. But if you want to know about the rest of the links, then this is the course for you, I guess.

RG: What would make it really excellent, cost a lot more. But if you could get offshore and follow right back from the customer, that’s the only missing bit in that. But that’s just another level in terms of cost and time. But I think for everyone producing food, it ends up in a value chain.

Anyone who’s considering how their value chain could be optimised and having the ability to think and talk at those levels with directors, whether it’s co-ops or the companies they supply.

But even comparing and contrasting across industries. I mean, why do we see the kiwifruit industry as being successful and potentially the dairy industry versus sheep and beef? Versus the apples industry? What could we learn out of that?

Why is Rockit? What’s their target market in their niche versus Mr. Apple? How are they carving out different business models? If Anyone interested in business is really valuable. Anyone interested in sitting there saying, How do I develop skills to work out who I partner with in the future from my farm business? I think it’s very valuable.

BG: Yeah, and it has that in the field, practical, Here’s what we’re doing as a business aspect to it, but also, Hamish gives you the theory to look at it critically.

RG: Yeah, and the majority of the people in the course, when I did it last year, were practical farmers. All of us came from within the farm gate way of thinking, and we were trying to stretch ourselves beyond. That was the beauty. We’re actually all very similar from our backgrounds, although we’re from all different industries.

BG: Excellent. As I said earlier, the next value chain programme, applications are open until the 23rd of November, and the programme runs from the 8th to the 14th of February next year.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in Association with Farmers Weekly. For more information on Rural Leaders, the Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarship, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, and the Value Chain Innovation Programme, please visit Ruralleaders.co.nz