New Zealand wide Archives | Page 3 of 14

MyLead.co.nz is live.

Listen to our podcasts focused on discussion of the Food & Fibre CoVE Report and the MyLead platform.

MyLead.co.nz has been live for nearly a month with an invitation to feedback on user experiences. We’ve incorporated much of this feedback and from late May 2025, the site will feature the resulting enhancements.

Aligned to the NZ Rural Leadership Trust’s (Rural Leaders) purpose to grow world-class leaders for our country, MyLead helps to identify development pathways for people at all stages of their leadership journey.

This site is just one outcome of research conducted by Rural Leaders and commissioned by Food and Fibre Centre of Vocational Excellence (CoVE) and the site draws down information from this research relevant to each user.

MyLead allows a user of the site to generate a leadership development pathway based on two data inputs, ‘current leadership stage’ and ‘industry’.

Along with this pathway, MyLead gives actionable outcomes from the research’s latest Leadership Pathways Report https://ruralleaders.co.nz/realising-leadership-potential-in-new-zealands-food-and-fibre-sector/ with practical examples people can implement into practice immediately.

It’s really a starting point for anyone taking the lead on their, or their team’s, leadership development.

We have been gathering user experience feedback and incorporating this into the site, before the formal launch in late May.

“If our sector is to grow stronger it must nurture a sustained flow of capable and self-aware leaders that are continuously developing themselves and the teams they work with”, said Lisa Rogers, Rural Leaders CEO.

It is our hope that MyLead will help nurture our people and play a role in building an ever more vital and vibrant food and fibre sector into the future. We’ll continue to update and improve the site for the medium term, before offering programme partners to opportunity to login and manage their own programme(s) content.

A big thank you to all of the MyLead participating programme partners: NZ Young Farmers, AWDT, Beef + Lamb New Zealand, Business Torque Systems Ltd., University of Canterbury, DairyNZ, Dairy Training Ltd., Lead With Virtue, Mayfield Group, NZIPIM (NZ Institute of Primary Industry Management), Rural Coach, Rabobank New Zealand, HALO Training, Rural Leaders, STAMP, The University of Waikato, Horticulture New Zealand, Farmlands Co-operative Society Limited, Livestock Improvement Corporation (LIC), Activating Potential, FoodHQ, Silver Fern Farms Ltd.

Feedback to mylead@ruralleaders.co.nz

Jenni Vernon – Insights from a career built on taking the lead.

In this podcast, Jenni Vernon, 1994 Nuffield Scholar, Farmer, and former Chair of Environment Waikato, talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor at Farmers Weekly, about how a lifetime of leadership in rural communities began with a strong connection to farming and a willingness to step forward.

Jenni also talks through her Nuffield research, the Nuffield experience, and on not underestimating the power of face-to-face communication in a sometimes-disconnected social media age.

Listen to this episode of Ideas that Grow, or click on one of the platform icons below to listen on your favourite player:

Episode Transcript

You’ve joined the Ideas That Grow podcast, brought to you by Rural Leaders. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas That Grow is presented in Association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I am Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, Bryan Gibson. This week on the show, we have a very special guest, Jenni Vernon, who is the very first woman to graduate with a Nuffield Scholarship. Kia ora, Jenni. How’s it going?

Jenni Vernon, Farmer, 1994 Nuffield Scholar:
Kia ora, Bryan. It’s great.

BG: You did the Nuffield Programme in 1994. What drew you to that? Do you have a background in farming? Did you grow up on one?

A strong connection to farming.

JV: My father was a rural bank manager, but my mother’s parents were farmers in the Ruahine Ranges at a little place called Rangawahia. My farming life really started following my grandfather around learning to ride ponies. In those years, 50% of his income was from wool. We used to do sheep dipping – plunging them in the sheep dip.

We used to have to pluck wool off dead ewes and off the barbed wire fences. That was my introduction to farming at a very early age. I always had a passion, really. Then I was led by a very good school friend to join the Young Farmers Organisation. And from there, just got involved with Young Farmers, became National President, and actually always worked in rural areas when I was a primary school teacher in Waipukarau.

Through Young armers I met my husband. We settled, or he lived on the Raglan Coast at Tāwhata on a small dairy farm. So, that was my real hands-on, ownership, full nine yards of being a farmer, and have done so ever since.

BG: What drew you to Rural Leaders and to apply for the Nuffield Scholarship?

From Young Farmers to a Nuffield Scholarship.

JV: I guess it was my experience through Young Farmers. I did 13 years there and went on to be National President. In 1985, I first did the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme.

Just through opportunities and leadership roles, I could see that to do something like a Nuffield, where it really does extend you, not only your personal development, education-wise, but your international perspective too.

We are at the bottom of the world, all our exports, everything is offshore. That was one of that bigger picture issues. I guess Nuffield for me was a bit of a circuit breaker in my career because prior to winning my scholarship I was actually a divisional director for the New Zealand National Party. I was working there for eight years managing; I always said, ‘…people, paper and money.’

Many thought I would head down the line of becoming a central MP, but I don’t think that was really me. This opportunity to have a go at applying for Nuffield and gaining further leadership roles and a bigger worldview – came up, and I was fortunate to be selected and travelled in 1994.

It definitely met my expectations of being extended personally. But I’ve had a lifetime now of connection and value and actually being able to mix and meet, not just internationally. Within New Zealand we have amazing rural leaders, and I feel very privileged that I have learned a lot from those people. Our paths would never have crossed if I hadn’t done that.

That led me into a whole lot of other leadership opportunities. It really was a diving board into my future leadership roles, passion for rural communities and agriculture in general.

BG: What did you focus your scholarship on?

Nuffield research still relevant 30 years later.

JV: My research looked at the deregulation of the Milk Marketing Board, which was big thing in the UK at the time, and also looking at cooperatives.

Just by chance, one of my fellow Nuffield friends from Zimbabwe, Helen Locke, was the first woman to be selected from Zimbabwe, that same year. She was studying the Dutch flower industry because she had a huge flower enterprise. They exported their flowers to Europe through the Dutch market. That really was probably, for me, the highlight of my Nuffield because that really opened my eyes to the consumer market and how fickle consumer markets can be for something a fragile product like flowers.

It also opened my eyes to the amount of research and development that the Dutch government was spending – because flowers and seeds are a big export market. That was probably the highlight.

Even today, that study, and it’s what, 31 years ago that I did my scholarship, that is still relevant today, the consumer market. One day they want red roses, and the next minute, they want some dried weed that you find in the back garden or in the paddock.

We were privileged to see the back of the Dutch flower market, it’s absolutely huge. If it’s not sold, it’s just thrown out. It’s the equivalent is something like eight football fields and all these flowers had been flown in. If they didn’t want them that day, they were gone.

That meant that back in the countries like Zimbabwe and quite a lot of South American countries, they didn’t get any income. That was it. You’d produce that flower or product, and it took how long to grow it and then export and everything else.

What was equally interesting, an so was the deregulation of the Milk Marketing Board, because I looked at a company which is well known nationwide or worldwide, Kerry, in Northern Ireland, an island, and the influence of how they diversified their portfolio out of milk and into other industries. Then, of course, we I’ve got cooperatives, Fonterra, for example. Actually, 31 years later, my topics haven’t actually become obsolete, and I still look back and think I was very privileged to have that understanding way back then.

BG: Now, obviously, you went through this leadership programme, and as you touched on, it led to decades of leadership roles since then. Can you walk me through some of the greatest hits?

A career in leadership.

JV: Some of the greatest hits. Well, I had the privilege of being on the New Zealand Rural Leadership Trust (Rural Leaders) Board for six years. We went through that transition where we amalgamated the Kellogg and the Nuffield Programmes together.

I look at where the Trust is now with the other programmes. I was asked this question recently because I do a little bit of mentoring for women in leadership. One of the greatest hits was really to be actually Chairman of Environment Waikato, where we led the protection of Lake Taupo.

My greatest achievement was that my signature was on that paper protecting that lake forever. Now, it was a huge challenge. It was the first time farmers had to be consented. It was tough. There’s a lot of Māori, undeveloped land that will never be able to be developed to its economic potential to save the lake.

But that whole process and programme – to think that forever. I mean, we know that the lake’s water quality is going to deteriorate a little bit before it gets better, but it’s not long term. It’s going to have a better future than what it was probably looking like.

The most productive conversations are face-to-face.

BG: It seems we live in a bit of a sound bite world with social media and that thing. Being angry is commodified in some ways, which doesn’t help with actually thinking about the bigger picture as a nation.

JV: I guess I was privileged or otherwise that my term in local government, we didn’t have the influence of social media. I mean, yes, people could get angry with you, and yes, we were yelled at, but it was more face to face. It was in the local community hall or it was out in the field, standing on the ground, talking face to face.

There wasn’t this anonymous or down the line Facebook stuff. I mean, it was the beginning of, but certainly we didn’t have those anonymous Facebook conversations where nobody has any ownership. We owned it and we had to face up to it. I openly admit that there were times when it wasn’t very pleasant, but it was face to face.

It’s much harder to have a face to face conversation and be really nasty because there’s always a way through it. You can at least talk through the issues even if you want to raise your voice for the first ten minutes, generally, people calm down.

You’re right, the social media, I mean, I’m really glad, sounds very selfish, but I’m glad I’m not in local government or even central government now, where I think it’s sad that people find the need to hide behind the social media tool instead of actually upfronting. I mean, you can write submissions, that’s fine, but upfronting, honestly, within hall meetings and face-to-face. It’s a different world, a very different world. It’s one I struggle with at times.

BG: Now, you mentioned you still do some leadership mentoring? Do you have some work in that space? Yes. Are the attributes and skills and qualities of a good leader in the Food and Fibre sector, are they the same as they’ve always been?

Rural leadership pathways.

JV: They are, Bryan. In actual fact, one of the things that really concerns me is that we had a nice pathway into leadership roles in rural communities. When I first started, like young farmers or federated farmers, and then say your dairy board or apple and peer marketing board or whatever you wanted to do it. People seemed to want to embrace that.

Today, it seems harder for that pathway. I do have concern about people, how do you get into that leadership role? I do think sometimes that people have this view that once you’re a director or you’re on a board, that it’s easy, but it isn’t. It’s not fluffy stuff. It’s absolutely you’ve got a fiduciary duty. I think probably it’s harder now, because of time to run your business and the pressures and the responsibilities to take up some of those leadership roles. But certainly, if you do, it is exciting, and that’s where you can influence.

If you want change, it’s no good sitting in the back paddock and complaining. You’ve got to come to the front gate, and you’ve got to get out of your farm gate, and you’ve got to engage, and you’ve got to be part of a group, and that will lead you.

Some of the catchment groups, I look at them now. Some of those leaders, like Anna Nelson, for example, started off leading a big catchment group in, and now she’s Chairman of Silver Fern Farms.

It’s great to see that there is a pathway, but it is challenging. It’s still not easy for any generation to take it up because you have to, well, sometimes your business does suffer, but we do need to see people wanting to do that because we need a strong rural voice. The issues are not going to go away. They’re going to be more challenging, whether it’s environmental, whether it’s markets, or whether it’s political, dealing with your local councils or whatever. I mean, the issues are not going to go.

That’s the other thing that I look at and reflect is it’s harder for succession for family farms as well. That’s one of the other things that I have a bit of a concern about.

BG: Now, you mentioned that some of those tried and true pathways weren’t as strong as they used to be. But of course, there are the Rural Leaders Programme, obviously something you’d recommend to people.

Applying for a Nuffield.

JV: Totally, Bryan. It’s interesting. A lot of people go, Oh, I could never do that. I look at them and I go, Why not? The only thing stopping you is not applying. Because I’ve had questions like, how come you won a Nuffield Scholarship? Because, I mean, to be honest with you, Gordon and I only milked 180 cows on the Raglan Coast. We weren’t big-time farmers. But it was because I applied.

I applied myself in making sure that I was well prepared. I understood the dynamics of agriculture in New Zealand, the primary sector, but also internationally, and had a go. I also had mentors. I don’t mind saying it that John Kneebone was my… until he passed away, he was my mentor through my Nuffield, through being on the regional council for a lifetime.

If you can find somebody like that that helps you gain that confidence, because a lot of it is about confidence. That’s what Kellogg and Nuffield gives you – that confidence. People could say, I don’t have those qualities. Well, I could have looked in the mirror and said, well, neither did I. But actually, you’re surprised when you lift the lid, what’s underneath, and you can actually do it if you really want to.

I mean, I would never have guessed that my leadership pathway would have been what it has been over the last 50 years. Because if you looked at my school record, I was not a school prefect. I never won any prizes. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. So, it’s that one opportunity that taps into that reserve. When people say to me, I couldn’t do what you do. I say, No, you just don’t want to – but you can.

BG: For more information on Rural Leaders, visit the pages for Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarships, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, the HortNZ Leadership Programme, the Engage Programme, or the Value Chain Innovation Programme.

Kate Scott: Front footing the fast-moving regulatory environment.

In this podcast, Phil Weir, 2020 Nuffield Scholar, Farmer, Director B+LNZ and Associate Director AGMARDT, talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor at Farmers Weekly, about the positive value industry good brings to farming.

Phil also talks through some of the challenges and opportunities for sheep and beef farming and how his Nuffield Scholarship and research has given him a valuable global perspective.

Listen to this episode of Ideas that Grow, or click on one of the platform icons below to listen on your favourite player:

Episode Transcript

You’ve joined Rural Leaders’ Ideas That Grow podcast. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas that Grow is presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast. I’m Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly. With me on this week’s show is Phil Weir, 2020 Nuffield Scholar. G’day Phil, how’s it going?

Phil Weir, Farmer, 2020 Nuffield Scholar, Consultant, Farmer Director B+LNZ and Associate Director AGMARDT:
Hey, Bryan. How’s it going?

BG: Pretty good thanks. Now, you’re a farmer in the Waikato, and also sit on a board or two, don’t you?

PW: Yeah, I’m, first and foremost a farmer in Te Pahu in the Waikato. We’re sheep and beef farming here, and I’ve been doing that for about seven years. Had a range of other roles in an agribusiness prior to that, and then did a Nuffield Scholarship in 2020, which we’ll probably touch on because it was an interesting time to do that.

Since then, I’ve become a farmer elected director for Beef + Lamb New Zealand, and that also involves the New Zealand Meat Board and an Associate Trustee with AGMARDT. And then do a little bit of consulting for AgFirst Waikato. So, I keep myself busy enough and a nice diversity of things going on. So nothing never gets too boring, right? That’s great.

BG: That’s where I met you the first time was when you turned up for your first Nuffield weekend, wasn’t it?

Doing a Nuffield Scholarship during COVID.

PW: Yeah, I think so. I think we were getting media training at that point, Bryan, about how to talk to journalists and then that thing. So hopefully, some of that flashes back to me, I guess, today. But yeah, we were down in Wellington at that point preparing for… That would have been 2019, and we would have been preparing for what a Nuffield Scholarship was to look like.

Ultimately, the experience I had was a wonderful one, but probably one that was a little bit different than when we were sitting when I first met you and in 2019. But I think the whole Nuffield thing, I think this year is 75 years of Nuffield, and I was really lucky to get a scholarship. As I mentioned, did it during COVID, which meant that some of the travel arrangements didn’t happen right away, but absolutely, we did at some point get to go around the world and see some fantastic agribusinesses.

I think one of the cool things was reflecting prepping for this was we did the first Value Chain Programme around New Zealand, so Rural Leaders are now running a programme which looks at how good New Zealand agribusiness and agriculture and growing is.

And we were lucky to be the forced guinea pigs for that because we couldn’t go abroad. And so we got the chance to go and have a look at the best growers and best Agribusiness is in New Zealand, and I think it’s fantastic that programme now has been created probably out of the back of that.

I think it’s so valuable to go and look at what’s in your own country because we do so many things really well. That was one of the lucky things, I guess, about a COVID disruption. Every cloud has a silver lining.

BG: That programme’s going great guns these days. As the old ad used to say, ‘don’t leave town until you’ve seen the country’. Did you grow up in a farming family? Have you always been rurally focussed?

A call back to the farm.

We grew up in a small dairy farm, so I showed Ayrshire Cows as a teenager and a child. My wife brings up some of the photos with me leading cattle around the ring.

We grew up on a small dairy farm on the outskirts of Hamilton. In. It was fantastic. It was the classic family farming upbringing. We were probably fairly poor, but we didn’t want for anything, I guess. We were lucky, we were on the outskirts of town, so we got the best of both worlds. Then after high school, I probably tried to get as far away from agriculture as I could, to be honest.

I went and did a social… I started doing engineering and found that wasn’t quite for me. And then social science. And then went and did a master of marine management in Canada. So, for someone to get seasick, it was a bit of a novel thing to go do, but it was probably just a case of seeing the world, right?

Then I ended up living in Sweden with my wife in a range of places before we made it back to New Zealand via Australia and then worked at AgResearch. In a few business roles there. Then the opportunity to come farming on my wife’s family farm presented itself in 2017. We took that opportunity. So, it was full circle, I guess. Probably I tried pretty hard to get away from it, but kept nagging away to come back and have a crack. When the opportunity presented, we took it.

BG: I get that story a lot when I talk to your alumni in the Nuffield and Kellogg Programmes. A lot of them grow up in farming, head off and pursue other things, do things in other fields, see the world. Then, I don’t know, something nags at them, and they find themselves back where it all started.

I think it’s pretty hard to get past the fundamentals of rural life. Particularly, as you become a parent, you have plenty of space, and you have fresh air, and you don’t have some of the challenges associated with having children in urban environments. I think It’s not all roses going back from a corporate or agribusiness to a farming role. Farming is quite hard work, and there’s different challenges to it.

PW: I think that’s probably one of the big drivers. I think that’s what we reflect on that we really like about it, is that life It’s still an opportunity for both us and probably our children as well.

BG: On the sheep and beef farming side of things, it’s been a pretty tough few years, hasn’t it?

Sheep and beef farming now.

PW: It has. Yeah, there’s no doubting it. It’s been tough. Everyone experienced rapid inflation, so your costs escalated significantly. At the same point, we had the global commodities really dipped. So it was tough, particularly for sheep farmers.

There hasn’t been a whole lot of love from wool for a for a long time, and some of the high pricing that existed around COVID for sheep came off at a really unfortunate time. So it has been really hard. I think it’s great now there’s a sense that most people’s budgets are able to balance.

When I hang out with other farmers, I see more confidence. It’s partly just because you know you can make the box balance, and ultimately, you’re working for a profit or to be able to have some improvements. I think, really, there’s across the country, we got smacked with weather events amongst that as well, whether it be Gabriel or Northland weather events.

I think most of the North Island anyway had an event that costs significant amounts to farming businesses. It’s been a hard couple of years with interest rates and other things. But I think it’s on the right trajectory now. One’s going down and the prices are going up. So, I think make hay while the sun shines, Bryan.

BG: Yeah, I’ve been talking to AgriHQ analysts a bit over the past few weeks, and they’re surprised but happy with the way things are looking in terms of export demand and farm gate returns. They don’t see a downside coming soon. It looks like it’s going to be pretty good throughout the season. So that’s great stuff.

The outlook is positive.

PW: I think it’s nice to know that the strong prices are projected to continue. The world’s not without a fair dose of crazy right at the moment, but things could change. But I guess the fundamentals is a bit of a deficit of protein, and the protein that we produce. It’s nice to be in that position at the moment.

BG: Just getting back to your Nuffield experience. Obviously, you investigate an idea, I guess. Your report was on the changing world in farming and diversification and resilience and that sort of thing, wasn’t it?

PW: My Nuffield report, I guess when I entered it, I’d come from a research environment. I believe there’s a whole lot of value in farmers and growers investing collectively. I looked the industry good bodies and how they might best arrange themselves.

I had a particular focus on commodity levies bodies. But I guess probably what I found through that was that there’s a whole lot of industry good activity that goes on. And ultimately, New Zealand does a really good job in doing a lot of that.

We’ve got Beef + Lamb New Zealand, DairyNZ and other organisations, but we’ve got a whole range of other industry good bodies. And to be honest, it probably worked pretty well together. I think I probably looked at it from the angle and I proposed some change that could happen.

The value of industry good to farmers.

PW: I suppose the starting point was, and I guess it’s why I’ve become a beef and land director, is that I see massive value in individual farmers contributing a small amount of money in the form of a levy or a relatively small amount of money in the form of a levy to enable certain activities to happen that we otherwise couldn’t do.

The R&D work and the helping farmers to perform better in areas where you’ve got market values, the stuff that I’ve always been interested in. I don’t know whether it was ‘Tragedy of the Commons’ reading that when I was at university or something like that, but that whole pooling of resources to get a better outcome and stuff that the market won’t fund the area I was interested in.

I was lucky to look at the New Zealand system, but also to look at the United Kingdom and some European examples, Australia and the US as well. I guess probably what the outcome of it was is that when it’s all finished, I don’t think any system’s perfect, but our one does a pretty good job.

BG: That’s really good to hear because I guess in terms of the industry good organisations, you could argue we’ve been through one of the more turbulent times in recent memory, I guess, fuelled by the emissions pricing process, which ended up with a lot of people questioning how farming side of things went through it.

We seem to have evened out on the other side of that now. Of course, this government doesn’t have such a strong hand of regulation on the sector. It’s good to hear that through your insights globally, we look pretty good compared to others.

PW: Yeah, Bryan, I think the He Waka Eka Noa and water and those big media issues are often what people think of as the work that some of this industry good stuff does. But I think probably the thing we often forget is the amount of other work that goes on.

So whether it be the benchmarking work that can enable a farmer through Beef + Lamb’s economic service or a dairy base or some other tool to work out, well, hey, if I have this property and I’m running this system, then how are my peers going economically? What are they spending their money on? How does that work? Those data sets that have been prepared on behalf of industry for many years are really powerful and really important and can help us farm better.

I think there’s also areas where industry good bodies can ultimately collect some resources and they can make determinations around where some of our investment is spent from an R&D perspective. If we look at facial eczema in our area, if it rains today, then I’ll be happy. But in another level, I’ll be worrying a wee bit about facial eczema.

The fact that there’s an industry good body, in our case, doing work on that’s great. It’s not something I can afford. I can’t afford to do that work, but it’s stuff that very much underpins my business. I think we often forget or get caught up in those couple of big political critical areas where there’s a bit of conflict that clouds our overall perspective of all the good stuff that goes on.

BG: And of course, New Zealand being so unique in the world of farming, with its geography, climate farming systems, we’ve really got to do all that stuff here. We can’t just import IP or knowledge from other places because no one does it quite like we do.

PW: We’re so unique, right? There’s not many people produce sheep meat or kiwifruit, for that matter at any real scale. We’re the leaders in that, or us in Australia, and it depends maybe on what product you’re talking about.

Ultimately, we do have a unique primary production system based on grass, and so we have some unique challenges we need to deal with. I think it’s great that for the most part, growers have, whether it be onions, or potatoes, or tomatoes, or dairy beef, sheep, whatever, pulled little bits of funds together to help out the collective. It’s probably builds a problem like cooperatives and other collective models that have been really effective and efficient to helping New Zealand Ag, I think.

Despite your Nuffield experience being curtailed or hit, I guess, with the pandemic, how did you find the whole thing?

The Nuffield experience.

It was a life-changing experience, Bryan. To that point, we were on Tangalooma Island, which is off the Coast of Brisbane, like a tropical paradise, doing this scholar conference for Nuffield when the world fell apart during COVID. I think the group this year are coming to New Zealand. And so what happens there is that 100 scholars from each year converge on one location and discuss global agriculture. So we got the start of that, and then things changed.

But I guess probably what Nuffield provides as perspective, I think. Perspective as to where New Zealand’s agricultural system fits. So the basic thing of it is you get to travel and then you do a report. But through the travel piece, I suppose from a perspective, you get to see a range of different agricultural systems. Our group visited North Carolina, we visited Argentina, we visited Chile, we visited a range of places.

So, we saw agriculture in the United Kingdom. We saw agriculture being done on a range of scales, from massive feed lot systems, to avocados and lemons being growing on areas where there was basically no soil left, and it was all irrigation and social licence issues to do with that.

Then right down to small scale producers, 20,000 sheep, milk, dairy sheds, 100,000 hams hanging up in Iberian ham factories. So, you got the range of scale and perspective. And so I think that made me think about what is the role for New Zealand agriculture. I think the other one that it does is it provides a significant amount of confidence. And I think that’s across all leadership programmes.

Gaining confidence through leadership development.

I did Kellogg a number of years ago, and I think it provided the same thing. Both programmes empower the individual to think that they are credible contributors, that they can have an opinion, that their ideas are important, and that they can discuss and work through those with a range of different people in the industry.

So you get to interact with the people that are running the big businesses, whether it be Fonterra or Zespri, or others, and you get to hear their perspectives. I think that confidence is something that I’ve definitely taken from it. I think, yeah, confidence and perspective are probably the two . I think the other one that’s probably also stuck with me is, I remember Julian Raine talking to us, who’s been heavily involved with rural leadership in New Zealand.

He’s saying that a lot of it’s about how spending as much time as you can to really understand a problem. I guess part of it is it’s a programme, and I think Kellogg as well, they really encourage you to critically think about an issue to go a bit past the social media grab or the particular part of spin or headline grabbing that might be going on and actually think, what is this? Whose perspective is this from? What does it mean for me? What does it mean for the people I might represent?

For me, that was a really powerful learning experience. I’m very grateful for the Nuffield and for the sponsors that sit behind it.

BG: So, you’d recommend it to those thinking about doing it?

Investing in yourself.

You often speak with people that are looking at doing it and there’s no great time to do it. But the reality is you’ll probably have young kids, you’ll probably have… You will have business commitments. And what it makes you do is drop all of that and invest time in yourself and understanding agribusiness or agriculture globally. They used to stick you on a ship and send you off for six months, but now it’s more like five or six weeks. But regardless, it is a circuit America.

The programmes when you’re abroad are so busy, you can’t be running your own business at home. You struggle to deal with the family affairs, and so it provides a real disconnect. That is one of the strengths of it. I think that the best time to do it is now. It’s not going to get any easier to do it. I feel scholarship-wide, very young kids. I have a very supportive wife. I was very lucky in that sense. But I think it’s something you just need to do. The immersive learning component of it is something that’s really unique. I really encourage people to have a crack at it.

BG: Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

You can read Phil’s Nuffield report here.

For more information on Rural Leaders, the Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarships, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, the HortNZ Leadership Programme, the Engage Programme, or the Value Chain Innovation Programme, please visit ruralleaders.co.nz

Hamish Murray podcast - Building stronger on-farm teams

Hamish Murray: Building stronger on-farm teams by getting out of the way.

In this podcast, Lisa Lunn, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor at Farmers Weekly about her Kellogg research into the use of genetic technologies in agriculture. Lisa’s research presents a balanced view that unpacks the challenges, and the opportunities genetic technologies offer the food and fibre sector.

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Episode Transcript

Bryan Gibson – Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’ve joined Rural Leaders’ Ideas That Grow podcast. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas that Grow is presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I’m Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly. With me on this week’s show is Lisa Lunn, who is a recent Kellogg scholar.

Lisa Lunn, 2024 Kellogg Scholar and Category Manager for Crop Protection at Farmlands:
LL: Hi, Bryan. Thanks for having me.

BG: Where are you speaking from?

LL: Currently in beautiful Morrinsville in the Waikato, where I’m based.

Lisa’s Journey and Passion for the Food and Fibre Sector

BG: Nice. Now, you work for Farmlands, is that right?

LL: Yes, I do. I’m the Category Manager for Crop Protection at Farmlands.

BG: That sounds like a big job.

LL: Yes, essentially, it’s looking after anything related to agrochemical with an agronomy focus across the country. Working in really close with our team of talented TFOs, our agronomists, and our supply chain team as well.

BG: What knowledge and education do you need to get that job?

LL: I went through Lincoln University and got an Agricultural Science Degree, and I spent quite a few years in the sector working in various technical sales roles. I’ve had pretty good on-the-ground experience around the industry. Then this opportunity came up to get into the merchandising team. On my side of things, I bring a bit of technical on-the-ground knowledge, in an incredibly supportive environment with a lot of resources to help on the category side of things as well.

BG: Was the food and fibre sector always going to be your career of choice?

LL: Yes, I think so. I grew up on a small farm in the North Waikato. I think I always lean towards science and agriculture. Heading down to Lincoln to get my qualification was a natural step – Just so passionate about the food and fibre sector. It’s obviously everything starts and stops the food we grow. I’m proud to be involved with a sector that puts food on people’s tables around the world every day. It’s a pretty exciting industry to be part of.

Genetic technologies and the Kellogg research report

BG: We know the food and fibre sector in general, and New Zealand has a few challenges ahead of it. One of them we’re grappling with at the moment is whether to relax the rules around genetic technologies. And your Kellogg’s scholarship report looked directly at that, didn’t it?

LL: Yes, I was part of Cohort 51 that kicked off about a year ago. At the time, it was being talked about, but obviously a lot more has happened in the past year since then. The coalition government proposed some rules, a rethink of the rules, I suppose, that govern the genetic technology space. My report looked into if a change were to happen, what do we need to understand, as a country ,to make sure that any changes implemented are sustainable and the best thing for the country and our export markets.

Kellogg research process and key findings

BG: How do you go about getting the information and putting it together?

LL: Every Kellogg report generally involves a literature review. There’s a fair bit out there on this topic. Genetic technologies are very prevalent overseas, so there’s plenty of information there, and there’s quite a bit of information as well as to how it may impact our export markets.

The other part of that was semi-structured interviews. I spoke to about 16 key stakeholders from across the industry and also environmentalist groups as well, to make sure it was balanced. I had some interviews, and analysed the data as to the main trends that came out of it.

BG: Can you tell us a little bit about what those trends were?

LL: I spoke to a number of stakeholders representing a lot of sectors throughout the primary industries, and environmental groups, to make sure it was a fair and balanced discussion. In the groups I spoke to, no one was outright against a change, but there was plenty of those that were for it, and a portion were supportive but proceed with caution.

There were definite trends there in that a lot of people did support a change, and then probably the main group was ‘proceed with caution’. It was, ‘have a look at what other countries have done, make sure there’s a very good national conversation had so that everyone’s brought up to speed and understand what it means for us as New Zealanders, what it means for our export markets’. All of these things, that if we are to do it, we’ve got to do it right. We’ve got to take our lead from other countries that have done it and who’s been successful and who hasn’t.

Legislation and Global Considerations

LL: There was a group of individuals that I spoke to that were a bit more, ‘let’s find out a bit more information before we can make a decision, and potentially, are there other areas we should be focusing on first?’

A big thing that came out of it was that there are a lot of uses of genetic technologies. One of them, that’s been heavily spoken about, is the ability to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. The group of respondents I spoke to were very clear on saying, ‘this is not a silver bullet’.

It has to be part of a holistic approach that means that we can use other technologies and other mechanisms to help reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. This isn’t just going to be a set and forget. We’ve got to look at the bigger picture and make sure we are using everything we can to make sure we’re hitting the targets we’ve set ourselves and doing the right thing to be sustainable farmers. It’s not something that’s just going to come in and solve all our problems overnight.

BG: The legislation we’re working to now was written in the mid ’90s, wasn’t it? Considering how far the science has moved, it’s definitely time to have another look at this.

LL: Yes, scientific consensus is that basically the technologies have moved faster than our legislation has. As you said, it was written a long time ago, the HSO Act, which governs the space. Initially, when it was written, genetic technologies was a lot more cisgenesis.

There was a lot more inter-species genetic transfer. Nowadays, it’s much more specific with CRISPR-Cas9, and those technologies. There’s also some cases where certain modifications that might happen in the market that’s been exported to, might not even be considered a genetic modification because it’s something that can occur in nature anyway. It’s about having clarity on the definitions and what our export markets would consider genetic modification or genetic gene-editing. And bringing that legislation up to date with the technology we have available to us these days.

BG: That’s the big thing. I think I often find in the correspondence I get on this, that some people think we can do this, so we should, whereas there’s a bigger discussion to have around what does that mean for other things outside of science in terms of society and the way we market ourselves to the world.

The Kellogg Experience and Future Outlook

BG: You mentioned trade agreements already. There are a lot of places who have different ideas what is acceptable or not. There’s a lot to get through, isn’t there?

LL: Absolutely. A lot of the competing nations in the agriculture space do use it, and in some areas it has given them an advantage. But we tend to trade on ‘clean green’ with the NZ Inc. image.

We need to be conscious of the fact that just because we can do it, it doesn’t mean we should. That’s an absolutely fair argument. There are a lot of very valid concerns out there. To name a few, it would be what impact is it going to have on our export market? There’s concerns around the corporate regulations around it.

There’s concerns about coexistence. Can an organic farmer still do what they want to do and be nearby to a farm that’s using GE products? I think it needs to be balanced. It needs to be fact-based.

I think you have valid concerns on both sides of the coin, and they need to be heard and understood and addressed. Some of the literature I read spoke to the fact that our export markets are probably more concerned with us moving in the right direction with our greenhouse gas emissions, water quality, animal husbandry, those things, even though we’re already very good.

But there were areas that, potentially, they’d like to see improvement, whereas in some markets, genetic technologies was less of a buying decision for them. But can we coexist? Can we still have the non-genetic technologies with farms operating alongside ones that choose to take up these technologies? The government has drafted a bill that’s already available for viewing and submissions.

It’s making sure that the discussions that are had our fact base, and it is an emotional topic. Hearing both sides of the coin and looking into what’s best for us as a country, as an agricultural export nation, and as New Zealand does as well, it goes beyond agriculture. Just understanding the technologies that may be available to us – what benefits are they going to bring?

BG: I understand the bill that’s been drafted is loosely based on the Australian system that they’ve got in train. Is that correct?

LL: Yes, it is.

BG: That there is some aligning with our close neighbours, is not a bad place to start, hopefully.

LL: Yes, absolutely. Just taking a lead on some of the nations that have done it and what their learnings have been and going more risk-based assessments as opposed to reviewing the individual technology itself, what’s the end product. They’re definitely taking a lead from Australia’s legislation.

A Transformative Leadership Experience

BG: Your report is out there. What was it like doing it? What was the Kellogg experience like for you?

LL: Fantastic, I absolutely loved it. I couldn’t recommend it more. I was very fortunate to be sponsored by Farmlands to do it. Farmlands are very generous with allowing me the time to head down and do the in-person courses. It was a lot of work putting the report together and doing the interviews, but the whole experience was absolutely incredible – The people you’re able to connect with both throughout the cohort.

The speakers that came to see us, conducting themselves under Chatham House rules meant they were just able to be so free and frank, and you could ask them questions you probably could never normally ask an industry leader or a CEO or a high-powered scientist or politician. You could be very open and transparent and learn whatever you needed to for your own personal development journey.

It was just absolutely unreal. The scope of people that were in the cohort, the knowledge they had, the questions they asked, just a wonderful cross-section of people from across the industry. The main thing we all had in common was we were passionate about the industry and the future of the sector.

BG: You mentioned it is personal development. What does the future look like for you?

LL: I touched on it before: Food and Fibre is my passion. I love being part of the sector, and I will always remain a part of the sector. I’m excited to be part of it here in New Zealand. It’s such a small industry. Everyone knows everyone. It’s a great thing. Everyone’s genuinely passionate to turn up to work every day.

I’ve been with Farmlands for about two and a half years now, so I’m really happy to get stuck in there and keep building on my role and working with a fantastic team I’m lucky to be a part of. Whatever I do, it’ll be involving the sector.

BG: For those out there who might be thinking about getting to work on something like the Kellogg programme, you’d recommend it?

LL: Absolutely. Rural leaders do a fantastic job of giving you all the resources you need, all the tools you need in your toolbox to become a better leader, to be more self-aware, to understand the skills you do have and the skills you could improve on.
The networks are astounding, and it gives you really good context for both internal
New Zealand-centric trends and aspects of the sector here, and also a really good handle on geopolitics and things that are happening overseas.

It helps you understand what trends may be emerging and how they could affect us here, as well as teaching us really good soft skills, like improving your critical thinking skills and time management and all sorts of things that come out of it.
Everything I gained from that is absolutely invaluable, and I’ll continue to use it in my career.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

You can read Lisa’s Kellogg Report ‘Understanding a future with genetic technologies in New Zealand agriculture’ here.

For more information on Rural Leaders, the Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarships, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, the Engage Programme, or the Value Chain Innovation Programme, please visit ruralleaders.co.nz

Kate Scott: Front footing the fast-moving regulatory environment.

In this podcast, Dave Nuku, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor at Farmers Weekly, on his work with Ngamanawa Incorporation and about how adopting a philosophy of Kaitiakitanga can be in alignment with a strong and profitable business.

Listen to the podcast here.

Bryan Gibson – Managing Editor of Farmer’s Weekly.
You’ve joined Rural Leaders’ Ideas That Grow podcast. In this series, we’ll be drawing on insights from innovative rural leaders to help plant ideas that grow so our regions can flourish. Ideas that Grow is presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I’m Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly. This week, I’m talking to Dave Nuku. How’s it going?

Dave Nuku, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, Ngamanawa Incorporation.
DN: Hi, good Bryan and you?

BG: Going good, thank you. You’re one of the very recent Kellogg scholars. I understand your report has only just come out.

DN: I’ve had a fantastic experience with Kellogg. Just finished my report, so glad to have had that completed. Yeah, it’s good to be here with you today.

BG: Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from?

Bringing a global perspective to New Zealand food and fibre.

DN: I’m from the Bay of Plenty, up here in Tauranga, and have some strong whakapapa connections back here. My family have been here for a long time. I’m currently working for Ngamanawa Incorporation, managing a block of Māori land of around 4,000 hectares in the lower Kaimai.

BG: Awesome. I was born in Tauranga, so I know the place pretty well. Has most of your career been in the food and fibre sector, or is that something relatively new to you?

DN: To be completely honest, it’s very new to me. I do not have a background in the food and fibre sector. I actually spent two decades overseas working through Southeast Asia, Hong Kong, Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia. So I lived based in Malaysia, Hong Kong, and Singapore for several years in a completely different industry.

I was working for a multinational company over there running health clubs and resorts across Southeast Asia. So, it’s a big change from that perspective. I moved back home to Aotearoa a few years ago, just after COVID, and was fortunate enough to make a transition into the food and fibre sector with the Incorporation which our family have got long-standing connections with. It was a nice fit, but a very different industry – and all the differences that come with changing industries and countries.

BG: Yeah, that is quite a change, isn’t it? How did you find your time overseas? You’re obviously there a long time. environment.

DN: Absolutely loved being overseas, loved travel. My wife and I have got two kids as well, and so they were born overseas. So very much an international whanau. We did a lot of travel when the kids were young, and as they grew up. It was a constant part of our lives.

We were working in these different markets, so it was quite dynamic. Quite different to New Zealand. We were living in Malaysia and Singapore – so that’s closely connected to a lot of other countries, very easy to be mobile and get around. Businesses, languages, all of those things are very different, more nuanced, more complex than New Zealand in industries that we’re working at, but loved it. Absolutely loved it.

Having said all of that, it’s great to be home. I think Aotearoa, New Zealand is the best country on Earth and absolutely love living here, working here, and being home with my family.

BG: Tell me a little bit about the Incorporation you’re working for now.

Managing, leading, and stewardship.

DN: Yeah. So, Ngamanawa Incorporation has a large land block up in the lower Kaimai’s. Mainly the Incorporation has its roots in forestry. It’s around 2000 hectares of pine, radiata pine, and around 2000 hectares of native forest. In the native forest, we have a conservation team of five full-time Kaimahi or staff who are involved in our predator control efforts there.

We do everything from monitoring the waterways, the habitat for native species, whether it’s tuna/eels or kōkako, or kiwis. We have a lot of those really special native species up on the block. As well as forestry, we’re also involved in horticulture. We have a kiwifruit orchard with golden and green kiwi fruit in the Kaimai area, a little bit closer to Tauranga.

Then we also have some investments in other horticulture crops, strawberries on Matakana Island and some rocket apples in the Hawke’s Bay. So, quite a mix of different business interests across the Incorporation. It keeps you busy and it’s varied.

BG: Yeah, a lot of variation and diversity there. I guess there’s a lot of different farming techniques, business management, and you’ve got the native block as well, which is more of a conservation approach, I guess. A lot to keep on top of.

DN: I think it’s the variety and that diversity that makes it fascinating for me. I have a really strong international business background, but it’s nice to be doing something that is very, I suppose, organic and something working for an entity that we’ve got a long-standing connection to.

The block, the incorporation is made up of a number of different blocks of traditional Māori land, that has been in Māori ownership for hundreds of years. It’s nice to be taking that and really making sure that it’s productive in terms of our forestry, and then also in the indigenous forest space and the native bush, really looking at preserving the native species there.

We also have a lodge for our shareholders, so you can book the lodge and go up there and enjoy it with your family. It’s nice on a lake with lots of waterways in the middle of the bush.

It’s also about connecting people to land as well. Then the horticulture and the kiwifruit is really that’s a lot of the day-to-day operations. Long time between drinks in terms of the business model for forestry, but with Kiwifruit. They’ve got a more seasonal cash flow in business requirements and operations there.

BG: How are things tracking for you guys at the moment? Has it been a good year? Things looking pretty good?

DN: It’s been a fantastic year for kiwifruit in general across the Bay. It’s been something that the industry has really needed. We had a couple of rough years there with COVID, and there were a number of weather events.

Also, some of our growers down in the Hawke’s Bay area were really affected by cyclone Gabrielle. But overall, the industry has had a great season, a really strong crop. I think a record season, just under 200 million trays, which is around about a 25% increase on the previous highest year for Zespri overall, who sell our kiwifruit into market.

It’s been a record crop. Growers have really benefited from it. Last year’s growing conditions were excellent. Not only did we get good volume, but it also got really good fruit quality, which has held up well in the markets. We sell that through into Europe, China, and other places.

You’ve got to celebrate the wins, and we’ll take those because horticulture can be challenging. There’s always weather events, and you’re always on your toes, and no two seasons are the same. We’ll just take the win and then really focus on trying to do that again this season.

A background into how a Māori Land Incorporation works.

BG: Now, probably most of our listeners have a bit of an idea about how a Māori Incorporation functions and is structured. But could you just give us an overview of how that works?

DN: Absolutely. The Incorporation is governed by a committee of management. They function more or less like a board, I suppose, if you could think of it in that way, with some really small, subtle differences. But if you think of them as a board that are duly elected by the shareholders to represent the shareholder interests in the land block.

The Incorporation itself is an amalgamation of five different blocks in the lower Kaimai area that were all brought together just for the economies of scale that comes with a motivating all that land, which led to the 4,000 hectares that we currently have. Then what ends up happening is all of the owners in those individual land blocks more or less get shares in the Incorporation as opposed to a direct ownership in the land itself. That’s the governance structure and the ownership structure is more like a shareholding reporting into the committee of management.

The big difference between a Māori Land Incorporation versus a trust where the owners of the land still retained a slightly different ownership model. The Incorporation has been around for around 50 years and came together in the 1970s to amalgamate the land blocks to secure the land over the long term.

At that time, we were facing some challenges with the confiscation of land through the Public Works Act for the hydro scheme that’s currently up in the in the Kaimais. As I said, that was the origin story of the Incorporation. It’s come together as a result of that. We got into forestry and then have diversified over the years.

Kaitiakitanga – guardianship/stewardship. Adopting the long term view.

DN: So, generally speaking, Māori Land Incorporation, long term holders of assets in land, long term view, primary in nature, forestry, horticulture, looking to diversify. We have some other stocks and portfolio financial products. But everything we do isn’t really driven on a quarterly basis in terms of returns. It’s much more about where we want to be in 5, 10, 15, 20 years.

BG: That’s something that a lot of people are thinking about more and probably should think about more is having that longer term view of where you’re going. Because you’re right, that quarterly reporting makes you overegg the omelette in some ways.

You can drive production to meet targets and then have some issues to clean up afterwards. Whether a more measured approach with more long term targets seems to be a better way to take care of our land?

DN: I think so. That’s definitely our view on it. It’s more of the Kaitiakitanga view. Kaitiakitanga, meaning guardianship or stewardship. I’d describe it in that way – which was the subject of my report. What I wanted to do, having come back from extensive experience overseas in more international markets, where stewardship, guardianship, long term, intergenerational ownership, wasn’t really anything that I worked in overseas.

I worked for companies, many of whom were private equity owned. So, a different modus operandi, so to speak, a different timeframe, buying and selling companies, building them, selling them to the next person.

Coming back into this environment with a much more long term view, real care for land and nature, led me to study Kaitiakitanga, which is the subject of my Kellogg report. The concepts and all of the different influences, in fact, as they tie into Kaitiakitanga, I thought that would be a good way to educate myself and bring myself back up to speed so I can use that philosophy when managing the Incorporation assets and people.

Kellogg and Kaitiakitanga as a pathway to enduring prosperity.

BG: So, your report, as we said just out very recently, is called ‘Kaitiakitanga as a pathway to enduring prosperity’. I was interested that you kicked off by saying a lot of us have a simplistic view of what Kaitiakitanga is.

DN: Yeah, I think it’s most often thought about or used as a term in reference to guardianship or stewardship with regard to the natural environment. Whilst that is a part of Kaitiakitanga, that’s only a small component of Kaitiakitanga.

The broader application of Kaitiakitanga is the idea that one has a relationship not only with the environment, but also with your family members, also with everything within that environment. And with that, we call it Whanaungatanga or kinship. And with that kinship, our relationship, comes responsibilities. And the responsibilities that come from that, Whanaungatanga, or kinship, are responsibilities of care and Manaakitanga, looking after the environment, looking after others, looking after yourself, respecting the spiritual dimension that are imbued in all things.

We believe as Māori that things have a spirit, they have a Wairua, they have a Mana, they have a life force, or Mauri. Just acknowledging and respecting those things, particularly in the Taiao, but also one’s self. It’s a real all-encompassing philosophy in terms of how one can approach their life.

For me, in the way in which I think about it for the Incorporation. I see myself as a Kaitiaki of the assets that are within my responsibility, making sure that they’re not only produce good results, but they don’t do harm, whether it’s to the environment.

We look at things like forestry and our aspirations there to convert more of that into indigenous forests over time, perhaps retire parts of that. We also take the responsibility quite seriously and invest a lot into the conservation space, trapping possums, predators, to be able to restore some of the natural bird life on our block, to get the bird numbers up. To do that, you need to suppress the predators because they tend to kill all the chicks and the eggs and so on and so forth. That’s an example of Kaitiakitanga there.

Our team have rituals or practises that they use each day when they go out into the bush. They protect their Wairua or their Mauri. They’ll say special Karakia or incantations or prayers to protect themselves.

They’ll also ask for blessing and protection when they do the work in the bush. Then likewise, within the organisation itself, our philosophy is driven by Kaitiakitanga in terms of starting meetings with Karakia, with prayer, acknowledging people within the meeting or anyone who may have, for example, for us as Māori, in speaking back to that kinship and relationship connection.

We’ll also acknowledge those who may have passed on, their family connections and those within the region or the Mutu of Tauranga, the rohe of Tauranga will acknowledge them and do a Mihi to them and their family. So, all of these different practises that feed into Kaitiakitanga are all a part of the way you operate the way that you live and aspire to live.

Can you have alignment between Kaitiakitanga and propseprous business?

BG: As the title of your report suggests, Kaitiakitanga is not in opposition to having a prosperous and profitable business operation, is it? I mean, enduring prosperity, you can make a good living for all of your shareholders.

DN: Absolutely. That’s the aim. I suppose that was really what drew me to the subject they’re not opposing forces. One can be a good steward of the land, good steward of themselves and a guardian, and still prosper and have good economic returns, whether it’s for your shareholder, whether it’s for your Whanau or your business or whatever it is. Those are not things that are opposing their nature. I think that comes back to the long term view.

Then also considering in a broader sense what the return on an investment might be. An example of that would be we most often measure return on investment in dollar terms. Whilst that’s an important metric, it’s not the only metric. For example, we have businesses we’ve invested in, and they have a really good social return for our people.

It’s about unlocking the potential of some of our Māori land, by our people, for our people and creating employment opportunities. Like growing high-value horticulture crops. The case in point is the blueberry investment we’ve made. We know that that investment is not just about a hard and fast financial return. That is also about investing in capability and building skills in high value horticulture.

We can accept that for that type of investment that may carry a higher risk, so to speak. But we think the returns are going to be social in nature as well as ultimately a sustainable, profitable business. We’re prepared to take on a bit more risk because we can see that we measure success differently, so to speak. You have the right size that for your Incorporation in your business.

We’re not going to put all your eggs in that type of investment, but we do take a number of smaller investments that allow us to be more adventurous. Then as those businesses grow and perform, then we can scale them up knowing that they have a good return for our people, for our land, and then also from a financial or Putea perspective for our shareholders.

BG: Obviously, your report looks at this quite in-depth. You’ve looked at the literature, of course, and case studies. You’ve made some recommendations about how to incorporate more of a Kaitiakitanga mindset into a food and fibre of sector business. What are some of those?

Three recommendations to include Kaitiakitana principles into business.

DN: What came out of the report that I did were a series of recommendations that I think I did expect would be the outcome. They are, first and foremost for Māori entities where there’s an opportunity to include Kaitiakitana principles. Those are things like in the culture of the organisation, having Tūkanga, what we call Tūkanga or Māori protocols around the Karakia, Mihi, acknowledgement of people, those who have passed special occasions, opening meetings with Karakia, finishing meetings with Karakia, welcoming new guests into your office with Mihi and Whakatau. That would be one example of something that the Incorporation does.

Also, there are some tools out there that one can use to exercise the Kaitiakitanga in regards to waterways. There’s a really cool tool called the Mauri compass, which allows you to measure the habitat of certain wildlife, wild species. For example, the native silverbelly tuna (or eels) that we have here. We do a lot of work in that space. So, water quality, habitat cover, abundance of life within the waterways, et cetera. Creating benchmarks using the Mauri compass across those different areas. Then setting some goals based on that.

One of the other recommendations that came out of the report was the importance of really capturing Kaitiakitanga and incorporating it into what we call our SAIPO, our strategic investment priorities and objectives document that outlines how we invest in different things and incorporating Kaitiakitanga as a guiding principle. So, that one, we’re investing in things that we’re proud of, that we want to be in, that are going to be good for the Taiao and the environment as opposed to things that aren’t.

That we are also making investments for a certain portion of our asset base. We’re looking at that as a good financial return, but also a good social return as well. And so, we have the lens of Kaitiakitanga, that’s our perspective, and we look at different investments.

Those were the three recommendations, what you can do on a daily basis in your Incorporation to make it part of what you do. Two is, tools that you can use in the natural environment. Three is, how you can weave it into your governance structures or your investment structures so that you’re getting involved with things where you can exercise your Kaitiakitanga.

BG: I talk to a lot of people and do a lot of reading in my job running Farmers Weekly. It seems to me that there’s a lot in the Incorporation’s view of how to run things that everyone could learn whether they’re a family farm in Canterbury, or wherever they are.

It gives a story to someone about the weighing up all of the externalities and the balance sheets of what you’re doing in terms of sustainability, social responsibility, social licence to operate, profitability, that sort of thing. Is that something you think?

Kaitiakitanga - universal principles for a long term view.

DN: I think the principles are universal. I really do think they’re universal. We’re talking about them in a Māori context here, but these are principles that you find in many indigenous populations across the world. I think you’ll find them in non-indigenous populations as well.

Part of the research that I looked into, you’d see new concepts emerging, for example, in the US, around steward ownership models that are really very similar to Kaitiakitanga, where entities that are in the environmental space, in the education space, or the charitable space in the US. They have come up with certain corporate structures that allow them to separate the stewardship values as a separate and enduring part of the governance structure that oversees those companies.

Irrespective of who the owners might be, they’re still held accountable to those principles of stewardship, and that’s really aimed at enshrining those principles of guardianship over these different assets, more common in the environmental space. I suppose my point is that that’s an example of the same concept halfway across the world being implemented and enshrined in legislative corporate law. Because I think it’s a lot of people are wanting to do that.

I think there are a lot of entities out there that are saying, Hey, look, these are really good principles of long term view, not just measuring the bottom line from a dollar perspective, but also from a social perspective. I think that a more holistic view and long term view is better. I mean, anything, even from an investment perspective, if you invest in it for longer, it’s generally better. I think there’s a lot of principles that could apply to any business.

BG: I was reading just the other day about something that applies to the other end of the supply chain, NZ Story, which is part of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, did its most recent survey with Chinese consumers.

They found that after COVID, they were connecting more with their history and felt that New Zealanders, the fact that we embrace our indigenous culture and what we do more than some other colonised countries, was a point of difference for us. So, it’s an interesting thing to think about as well.

DN: I think we’ve got a great story. I think we’ve got the greatest country in the world. I really do. I think New Zealand is an incredible country. I think we do food and fibre really, really well. I hope there’s opportunities to lean into these indigenous narratives and concepts because they’re good for their environment, good for people.

That also sounds, as you’ve said, that they have a powerful resonance with other people abroad and other cultures. In typical New Zealand fashion, we’re probably too humble about it, quite modest. I think it’s okay to say, hey, look, these are things that we do really well. We do lean into it. That’s a part of our culture and our history, and we should be proud of.

The Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme.

BG:Now, how did you find the whole process of going through the Rural Leaders’ Kellogg Programme?

DN: I can absolutely say without any word of a lie or doubt that it was the best leadership programme that I’ve ever done. The most complete and thorough. The quality of the information from the presenters that you’re exposed to is really world-class.

We’ve got some of the best educators presenting content, a wide variety, too. People with military backgrounds, doctors, professors, politicians, farmers, horticulturalists, you name it. Te Ao Māori educators and specialists too. The broader array of leaders in all of these different fields and to be able to listen to them, to interact with them, to learn from them was just incredible.

It was a very, very special experience. Throughout that all, you’ve also got this report that you need to produce. You’re constantly taking in information from these presenters. You’re learning a lot from some of the best young minds, and probably I wouldn’t put myself in that, but more of a more mature vintage, shall we say myself. But they’re really, really great leaders in their own right who come in to do this course. You end up learning a lot from the people around you. That’s very motivating. Iron sharpens iron, so the whole experience has been exceptional.

If I was to say one thing to someone considering doing it, is to absolutely do it, go for it, but do not underestimate the amount of time it’s going to take you, and the focus and commitment that you’re going to need to get the most out of it. It’ll be worth it, but it’s a lot of great work.

You can read Dave’s Kellogg Report ‘Kaitiakitanga as a pathway to enduring prosperity’ here.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Hamish Murray: Building stronger on-farm teams by getting out of the way.

Alison Bentley (Tikitere Farm and 2023 Kellogg Scholar) spoke yesterday at the event ‘Global and Local Approaches to Climate-Resilient Land Use: NZ’s Path Forward,’ at Lincoln University. Alison joined Angela Clifford (CEO, Eat New Zealand), in Session 2: Resilient Food Systems: Small-scale and Local?

As the effects of climate change and economic instability become harder to ignore, it’s clear that the current models of economics and land use are proving challenging. Enter Angela Clifford and Alison Bentley, two forward-thinkers who are shaking up how we think about local economies, food systems, and sustainable land use.

Their ideas offer an alternative vision for a future where community-based economies and small-scale farming can not only help us better contend with climate crises but could also transform the way we live, eat, and work.

The Missing Link: Community-Based Economies.

Angela Clifford, CEO of Eat New Zealand, has been championing the power of local economies for years. In her view, traditional economic models are overly focused on macro-level concerns like national GDP, and micro-level issues, like business profits. But there’s a massive gap in between: the community economy. This often-overlooked space is where, Clifford argues, the real power lies, particularly when it comes to addressing environmental and social challenges.

For Clifford, redefining economic success isn’t just about how much a country makes or how many businesses thrive. It’s about creating systems that prioritise sustainability, local self-reliance, and social equity.

But Clifford’s vision goes beyond just localising industry; she sees a radical rethinking of food systems as central to building climate resilience. Despite the growing urgency around food security and sustainability, little has been done to strengthen local food systems, she argues.

Small Farms: Big Impact.

Alison Bentley, a small-scale farmer from Tikitere Farm near Rotorua, is proving that small farms can be a game-changer for climate resilience. Through her research with the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, Bentley has been exploring the role of small-scale farming, especially on plots of 10 hectares or less, in building a more sustainable food system. Unlike larger scale commercial agriculture, which can depend on chemical-intensive practices, Bentley argues, small-scale farming often works in harmony with natural ecosystems, fostering biodiversity and improving land use resilience.

“An increase in scale is more of the same to gain efficiency, whereas an increase in scope can give us diversity and resilience”, Says Bentley. In other words, rather than always pushing farms to become bigger and more industrialised, we should be looking for ways to diversify farming practices to build long-term resilience. By aligning farming methods with the natural capabilities of the land, small-scale farms could deliver more sustainable and climate-resilient outcomes.

One of the key issues Bentley identifies is the underuse of “lifestyle blocks”, small rural properties that often sit idle or are used for residential purposes rather than food production. In New Zealand alone, there are 870,000ha in such blocks on productive land, with 140,000ha on prime land. And just 10% of this land is run by landowners serious about producing a primary income from their blocks. The other 90%, if managed properly, could become a vital resource in strengthening local food systems and reducing reliance on large-scale agricultural exports.

Bridging Urban and Rural Food Systems.

But there’s a catch: connecting these small-scale producers to urban markets. As cities grow and sprawl outwards, rural land gets encroached upon, and small farmers face significant challenges in accessing urban consumers who increasingly want locally grown, chemical-free food. Bentley’s Kellogg research highlights a growing demand for this kind of food, but there are major obstacles to getting it to the people who want it, infrastructure, limited market access, and high transaction costs are just some.

Still, Bentley is optimistic. There’s a clear market for sustainably grown local food, and consumers are often willing to pay a premium for it. What’s needed is a rethinking of food systems that can help small-scale farmers tap into that market while overcoming the logistical barriers that can stand in the way.

A New Economic Framework.

Both Clifford and Bentley advocate for a new economic framework that goes beyond GDP and focuses on values like environmental sustainability, local self-reliance, and social equity. Clifford believes that, in the face of climate change, it’s more important than ever to build local systems that can withstand global disruptions. For Bentley, small-scale farming offers a practical way to increase food security, reduce carbon footprints, and create stronger communities.

While neither discount the importance of New Zealand’s food and fibre exports to our economy, they both argue that we do need to think differently about how we use land and produce food.

A Path Forward: Empowering Communities, Supporting Small Farms.

Together, Clifford and Bentley make a compelling case for reimagining the future of food and land use. Their vision isn’t just about protecting the environment or boosting local economies, it’s about creating a more resilient, equitable society where both people and the planet can thrive.

They conclude by stating that by empowering small-scale farmers, supporting community-based economies, and rethinking how we use our land, we could build a future where local food systems play a central role in creating more sustainable and just communities. Food for thought.

You can read more on the subject in Alison Bentley’s 2023 Kellogg Report here.

Esther Donkersloot on leading research into cooler cows.

In this podcast, Esther Donkersloot, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor at Farmers Weekly, about her research with LIC on breeding heat tolerant cows.

Esther came to New Zealand to do her Masters’ thesis and never left. Good thing too. Having studied at the prestigious Wageningen University, she has steadily built a career looking into better genetic outcomes for our dairy herd – especially as the planet gets warmer.

Along with her research at LIC, Esther discusses her Kellogg report insights on genetics’ social licence to operate.

Listen to the podcast here.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I am Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, Bryan Gibson. This week, our special guest is Esther Donkersloot, who is a recent Kellogg Scholar and works with LIC. G’day Esther, how’s it going?

Esther Donkersloot, 2024 Kellogg Scholar, Scientist LIC.
ED: Yeah, really good thank you.

BG: I usually start these conversations by just getting a bit of life history, I guess. Now, you’ve come a long way to your life in New Zealand and your role at LIC.

The Netherlands’ loss, New Zealand’s gain.

ED: Yeah, this was an overseas experience for six months that turned out to be a bit of a life move to the other side of the world. So, my background is Dutch. I grew up in rural Netherlands, and I was always very interested in doing my master’s thesis somewhere else. Just by chance, I ended up in New Zealand with LIC, and have been here for 10 years now. So yeah, it’s been great.

BG: I understand you went to Wageningen, if I say that correctly.

ED: Yeah, it’s a tricky one. Wageningen University research centre. It was very close to home for me, probably about 20ks away from where I grew up. I I studied animal sciences there. Wageningen University is our main agricultural university in the Netherlands. It’s a highly regarded university, and it’s all around food, sustainability, and environment studies.

BG: Yeah, I used to work at Massey University, and they had a lot of partnerships with that university, and I always wanted to go and visit because it just sounded like an amazing place, that food valley environment.

ED: It’s an interesting place because it’s actually a very small town that the University is based in. So the town is the University, and it’s the combined effort of the University side as well as a big arm for research, which is a great environment to learn in. Definitely look back at it very fondly.

BG: So you came over here to do your master’s?

ED: To do my master’s thesis yeah. In our master’s, we had the opportunity to either do two thesis or to do a thesis inside an internship. I did two thesis. So, it took away the opportunity to learn outside of the University. I was still keen to get my main thesis done in a company somewhere else. By chance, my professor did his PhD with our head of research at LIC, Richard Spellman.

So, I ended up with the chance to do my (main) thesis over here in New Zealand with LIC, on gestation length. And then from there, I just enjoyed it so much that I rolled into a temporary contract, then a fixed-term contract. Now I’m well and truly settled in.

LIC research into heat stress in cattle.

BG: I understand your role here now is related to heat stress in cattle.

ED: Yes. I started my career with LIC in animal evaluation, and then had a little time in our international team. I got the opportunity to travel around a bit and learn a lot more about dairy around the world. I then came back to the research and development team to lead the Slick Heat Tolerant Breeding Programme, which I’ve been doing for the last six and a half years, alongside my colleagues. Nothing in research is ever an individual piece. It’s always a team effort.

BG: Could you just tell us a little bit about the work you do and why it’s important? I mean, we know things are warming up, so I guess it’s finding ways to get genetic markers for animals that are more tolerant of the warming world.

ED: Exactly. We found the slick gene. The slick is a dominant gene that we found in the Senepol breed in 2014. It is originally a beef breed from the Caribbean. Then we started the breeding programme to incorporate that into our New Zealand dairy animals.

Back then in 2014, the focus was very much around the potential of this gene for international, knowing that a lot of our dairy still comes out of tropical environments, and this is a huge opportunity for growth.

Then when we started to focus a lot more on environment and climate change, we changed the breeding objective to focus on what this gene could do for New Zealand. Because especially here in New Zealand, where animals are outside 24/7, we don’t have the opportunity to shelter them so much from heat stress as they would be in barn-based systems. So the opportunity of having a genetic solution was just amazing.

So, we started incorporating it by just traditional breeding into our crossbred animals in LIC with the hope of launching this as a commercial product in 2029.

BG: Obviously, a lot of this stuff goes above my head, but I do know that when you’re looking at these genes for certain traits, the first thing you’ve got to look at is, does it cancel out other traits you’re after as well? Like, I guess, milk production and mastitis tolerance, that sort of thing.

ED: Yes, absolutely. I’ve been leading the breeding side, where we’ve been trying to dilute this beef breed that we got the gene originally from, into our dairy animals. We’re trying to get the genetic merit and the genetic gain up to be producing milk and getting all those traits that we require for our New Zealand dairy systems.

Then alongside, my colleague has been looking at the effects of this specific gene, not just on heat tolerance, because we know that it does create a benefit for heat tolerance, but also what could this mean to the cold sensitivity of these animals?

We’ve been doing some research ourselves as well as a project in collaboration with Lincoln University, to understand, especially in calves, when they’re born in winter here in New Zealand or very early spring, what this gene would mean to them. Because we know it did create a shorter hair coat.

We found there’s been no negative consequences to this gene, and we’re hoping to publish some of this data very early in 2025. It’s very important for us that we make sure that before we commercialise, especially knowing that we’re on a seasonal system here, once it’s out there, you can’t control what animals are being born. So, we need to totally understand everything we need to know about this gene and making sure there’s no negative consequences.

BG: Well, we look forward to reading some of your research findings and then seeing some of this technology hit the market.

ED: Yeah, it’s a super exciting project. Having being part of it now for this last six and a half years, we just see these animals produce more and more. It’s so exciting to follow them from the sideline and being able to do research on them in different locations in New Zealand.

Kellogg research into genetics’ social licence to operate.

BG: If that didn’t sound like a lot of work, you were part of the first cohort of Kellogg Scholars this year.

ED: Yeah. I was part of Cohort 51, and lucky enough to be there on an LIC Scholarship.

BG: Oh, nice. Tell us a little bit about what you focused your scholarship studies on.

ED: Yeah, that’s an interesting one. Being a scientist, doing social science in leadership is quite different to my normal day-to-day activities. But what I was interested in is this aspect of this term ‘social licence to operate’ and how that applied to my area of expertise, which is genetics.

I was keen to understand how people were, first of all, to learn from other technologies. Other examples of things out there that we can learn from how people discovered and built this social licence to operate. Then understanding how people felt about genetics and what that social licence looked like. That was the main focus of my Kellogg Individual Research Project.

BG: I’m a journalist, and that seems very newsworthy because in New Zealand we’re right in the middle of having a rethink of our gene editing laws. One of the big issues that we’re all grappling with is, even though you can do it, should you? That comes down to social licence. It comes down to the marketing of your food story and all that thing, doesn’t it?

ED: Yeah. Part of why I was really interested doing this is that I felt quite often that social licence or that public perspective always came in during the commercialisation stage, and not that much during the research stage. But especially when you’re in a cooperative like LIC, everything we do is returning value to our farmers. If it doesn’t tick that social licence box, we need to pivot.

For me, it was how do we bring that conversation all the way through our research phases, from brainstorming to commercialisation? And then how do we also keep a finger on the pulse? How do we understand that the market is reacting to when we have a product in market? Because as you know, things change.

We’re living in a world where everything is changing faster than ever. So we can’t just put a product out there and just assume everything is all right. So, how do we do that? And who do we involve? Who are our stakeholders? And how do we carry that as an industry? Big questions.

BG: Oh, big questions. Did you manage to come up with some insight about how the licence was going for genetic technology?

The Kellogg research insights.

ED: It was a big question. I only scraped the surface. But one of the things that, first of all, really captured me, all the stakeholders I talked to were very passionate about genetics. Everybody understands the value of it, and it’s something that’s a cumulative that we can create and maintain. But not everybody felt like they were part of the conversation. So there’s definitely work to do there.

Then it brought up a lot of conversations around New Zealand Inc. How can we collectively take responsibility of all the aspects of our dairy towards not just our direct community here in New Zealand, but also our consumers overseas? That was really fascinating. Also, one of the other things that came up was the term ‘trust’. How do we build trust? But also what level of transparency do we get down to?

As I said, I’m Dutch. I like to think I’m a very open and almost, oversharing person. For me, a big learning curve was that sometimes by creating almost too much transparency, you actually raise more questions, or you highlight probably the negatives a bit too much. How do you balance that?

By building that trust, having transparency, but not oversharing where you just create confusion. There was some really interesting learnings in there.

BG: I was going to ask that because you’re uniquely placed to give insight into things. The Netherlands is one of the big food tech, animal production powerhouses of the world. I guess the general population on the street probably has a pretty fair idea about what’s going on over there. I wondered how it differed from New Zealand.

ED: Probably not at all. I would think that there’s a closer connection here to our farming communities just because a lot more people live rural. There’s a real urban-rural divide in the Netherlands, where a lot of people probably wouldn’t really understand where their food is coming from.

Then for me as well, I was very interested in that stakeholder piece around consumer versus customer, versus your direct community. But because we’re an export country here in New Zealand, what does that look like and how do we do that? In the Netherlands, it’s similar. Here, people feel very connected to farmers. They see it on their way to school, they see it on their way to work. Probably not so much in the Netherlands.

Food security and farming systems – Netherlands vs New Zealand.

BG: That’s interesting. I guess another thing to think about is that because we export so much of our food, we kind of don’t have the same food security concerns that places like the Netherlands do, and who have relatively recent major issues in terms of keeping everyone fed.

ED: Absolutely. Animal health as well, and diseases, things like that. This is a very different ball game. That’s what makes it so fascinating to be here in New Zealand. Also just the seasonal pasture system, I think it’s absolutely fantastic what we’re doing here and how we convert our basics into profit.

But at the same time, it brings its own challenges. As I mentioned before, when we have a product like genetics going out and it’s being used in spring, next year, we get millions of calves, and it could be thousands of the same sire line, for example.

That brings very different complex systems with it than we have in Netherlands where you have barn-based systems and you get a calf every second or third day. It’s just absolutely fascinating to compare the systems and understand the strengths and weaknesses.

Connecting with the Kellogg network.

BG: How did you find the Kellogg programme on the whole? It’s quite a big deal. There’s a bit of work involved. Of course, you’ve got cohort of people doing it with you.

ED: You walk in that room the first day and you get really bad imposter syndrome. Being a scientist, I’m like, wow, there’s all these leaders here in the room, what am I doing here? But I think the beauty of Kellogg is not just the content and the amazing speakers you get, but it is that cohort.

Just being able to banter with others, understand what they do, what drives them, understand their farming systems or their organisations. Especially for somebody like me that didn’t grow up in this industry. It was really important to set those networks and understand a bit more about the drivers of other people on the course.

BG: You’re here in Aotearoa to stay, you reckon?

ED: Yeah, I am a permanent resident. I’m living just outside of Te Awamutu rurally, so absolutely here to stay.

BG: It’s been great chatting to you, Esther. All the best for the rest of your work there at LIC.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Kate Scott: Front footing the fast-moving regulatory environment.

In this podcast Jack Cocks, 2021 Kellogg Scholar talks to Bryan Gibson Managing Editor Farmers Weekly, about his research into resilience in the face of adversity.

Jack faced his own adversity in the form of a brain aneurysm that sparked a recovery journey spanning 15 surgeries over six years.

Jack works on Mt. Nicholas Station with his family. He shares the three things all resilient and thriving farmers have in common here.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I am Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, Bryan Gibson. This week our special guest is Jack Cocks from Mount Nicholas Station. G’day Jack. How’s it going?

Jack Cocks, Mt. Nicholas Station.
G’day Bryan. I’m good, thanks. How are you?

BG: Yeah, good. Now, you were part of the Kellogg Programme two or three years ago, and you focused on farmer resilience, which is obviously a very important issue, but you’ve got a special reason for doing that, don’t you?

Well qualified to share insights on resilience.

JC: Yeah, I stumbled into it. It wasn’t something I really intended to be studying or to get involved in. Probably something I probably couldn’t define 20 years ago, what resilience was. But my wife and I have been farming here for about 16 years. About 11 years ago, I had a brain aneurysm caused by a rare form of inflammation between some blood vessels in my brain. Almost died, expected to die, had a number of complications, got a lot of time in surgery, in hospital, and a lot of surgeries over the next six years.

Then out of that experience, I got told I was a resilient character for bouncing back from adversity, and I didn’t really think I was that particularly resilient, and I didn’t think I knew what I was talking about – talking about resilience to a group. I felt everybody faces adversity.

Kate, my wife, and I were talking about this one morning over breakfast, and she said, why don’t you do the Kellogg Programme and study resilience? So, that’s how I got involved in Kellogg and how I ended up studying resilience.

BG: Tell us a little bit about what you found through your studies and how it made you understand your journey better or relate to it, or see any difference there, I guess.

Thriving in the face of adversity.

JC: I wanted to figure out how resilient farmers thrive in the face of adversity, which I use as a definition of resilience, that is, their ability to thrive in the face of adversity. So, to answer that question, I found five farmers throughout the South Island who had all faced major adversity, and they’d thrived in the face of that.

I sat down with each of for two or three hours, and we talked about their life pre-adversity, what it was they’d gone through, and then how they felt they’d been resilient. Out of that, there were some very strong similarities across those five farmers that all unknowingly, and independent of each other, had done the same things to be resilient and get through adversity. It all came together quite nicely in a simple little model.

Purpose, why, and connection.

BG: Because I guess often, we think about resilience as a moral quality, if you know what I mean, like courage or something like that. But it seems what you’re saying is resilience is something that anyone can do if they have the tools or know the process.

JC: Yeah, very much so. It’s something you can learn. Some people will be naturally more resilient than others and able to handle adversity. But it is something you can learn. I guess the model that came out of my Kellogg project was trying to develop some tools that people could utilise in their own lives to be more resilient.

So, when they faced the next challenge, and we all face challenges. They’re able to better handle that and get through that adversity.

BG: What is the model?

JC: So, there was three things that these five farmers all did. They all had very strong purpose, so they understood why they were doing what they were doing, and they were all very good at keeping connected. So, they surrounded themselves with people who could help them through adversity, and they all understood their wellbeing, or what they needed in their lives to be well and to be happy.

It came together visually in the form of a triangle with purpose at the top. That’s the ‘why’, connection being the glue in the middle of the triangle. That’s the ‘who’. And then wellbeing as the ‘what’ at the base of the triangle. That’s what came out of my Kellogg project. I’ve since done a couple of papers with a friend of mine, Joanne (Jo) Stevenson, a farmer in North Canterbury, and Hamish Gow at Lincoln University, which we’ve talked about and published in different journals.

Telling the resilience story.

BG: Tell me a little bit about that process. Are you from an academic background

JC: No, not at all. I’m probably quite academic for a farmer. I’ve got a postgraduate degree, but the first one was for the Institute of Primary Industry Management that Jo and I did. And then the second paper was for the International Farm Management Congress, which Jo, Hamish and I put together, and I presented that in Canada.

I guess where that came from, and this was Jo’s idea, Bryan, but one of the things that really came through when I’ve done probably 30 talks over the last five or six years about my health story, and resilience and the outcomes of my Kellogg research.

One of the things that came through to me was that people really resonate with the stories, the individual stories, my story of what I’d gone through from a health perspective and these five farmers I studied in the Kellogg Project.

So, Jo saw this, she’s got a background in resilience and found that there’s actually a lot of literature that suggests we can build our own resilience through understanding stories, through the stories we build ourselves on how we’ve navigated adversity, and hearing stories about how other people have navigated adversity.

So, if I hear a story about how you’ve gotten through a financial challenge or a family challenge, or whatever, and been really resilient, that might in-turn develop my own resilience and say, Oh, actually, I know Bryan got through that challenge by doing this. He’s come through the other side really well, so that suggests I can do the same. That most recent paper that I presented in Canada was based around that.

Resilience in a time of rapid change.

BG: Having presented internationally on this, are places like Canada, other places doing this work as well? Do they have the same take on it?

JC: I think it resonated certainly with the audience in Canada. It really did. I think resilience is something that increasingly is needed by everybody in the world. I think something that resonates with people, is that we all face adversity and we all need to be resilient. It’s not just me, in my family that’s had a health challenge. Everybody goes through challenges.

BG: Sometimes you hear people say a focus on resilience means you’re adapting people to deal with broken systems, and perhaps we should deal with the broken systems. But that’s simplistic as well, I guess. There’s always going to be obstacles, challenges in front of everyone, and it’s having the tools in the toolbox to be able to deal with them. Is that something you’d agree with?

JC: Yeah, I think so. There’s a lot of interpretations of resilience. Sometimes it’s being tough. Traditionally, it’s been bouncing back from adversity. But people that work in the resilience field now think because adversity is so common and constant, we’ve had COVID, climate change, a cost-of-living crisis. We actually need to be able to thrive in the face of adversity rather than just bounce back. So, that’s the current thinking from people that are working in the field of resilience.

Resilience is our ability to thrive in the face of adversity. But it’s a word that gets used a fair bit these days, and that’s possibly misinterpreted and mis-defined.

BG: I guess that’s something important as well. You mentioned we have seen resilience as returning to whatever we thought normal was or what was beforehand as quickly as possible. But to have an enduring effect, it’s actually about doing the right things and coming out stronger and more able to cope. And that might take longer and might look different for different people, I guess.

JC: Yes. I guess these three strategies that I came out of this Kellogg research, the idea was that they’re applicable to anyone, be it a farmer, be it a health challenge, or be it a financial challenge, you can apply these. It’s important to be resilient, to have a strong sense of purpose, a strong reason why your dairy farming in the Manawatu makes it easy for you to recover from a flood, or sheep farming in the Wairarapa makes it easier for you to get through a dry spell if you’ve got that strong reason why you’re farming where you are. And then connection and wellbeing are really important as well. But those three strategies, I think, are applicable to all farmers and everybody.

A sense of purpose.

BG: Now you’ve done all this work, the Kellogg Scholar Report, other papers written, obviously presented around the place. How do you feel now when looking back before you did all this through your health issues? Did you do what you now put on the tin, so to speak?

JC: Did I achieve what I wanted to by doing Kellogg?

BG: No, it was more talking about how you got through your challenge. Did you do it in a way that you would now prescribe as the way to do it?

JC: Oh, yes. Yeah, I see what you mean. I guess I’d been okay or all right. I’d been connected with other people. I had a huge network of support, my family and friends that helped me through that health challenge. I was probably reasonably good at understanding my wellbeing and figured out what I needed to do to keep happy and well.

People have asked, were you depressed or did you suffer from depression? And I got pretty annoyed at times with being in hospital, but I don’t think I did suffer depression. Those two things I was probably not too bad at, Bryan. The purpose was something that came out of the Kellogg research. These five farmers all had that strong sense of purpose, and that’s something I’ve tried to put in place in my life since. And that’s been a really valuable thing.

Kellogg and life on Mt. Nicholas Station.

BG: Those five farmers, what were their challenges? Just to put some context around how this resilience method can be applied. What had they gone through?

JC: So, one was a health challenge, one was climatic, one was financial, one was family, and then one was grief, personal loss. So, the five typical most common forms of adversity that farmers face, not all forms of adversity, but five of the more common forms. These farmers were from Southland to Marlborough and scattered in between. So, a pretty good spread across different farming systems.

BG: Different types of people, too, different age ranges and that sort of thing?

JC: Yeah, probably 30 years difference in age from the youngest to the oldest.

BG: I guess it just goes to show that if you have the building blocks there about how to navigate these things, it doesn’t matter who you are, where you’re from, you can apply them to your own situation.

JC: Yes, absolutely.

BG: The Kellogg Programme itself, it seems like a lot has come out of it for you. What was that like for you, doing the work?

JC: It was a fantastic programme. It’s very well structured, it’s well organised and facilitated. Great speakers, great content, a peer group that you go through with. So, for me, it was probably… It sounds a bit flippant Bryan, but it was probably a life-changing experience for me because I’d been pretty well in my mid-30s, and then almost died.

I’d been on a walking frame and had to regain my speech and learned to walk again multiple times to get to the level where I was able to contribute and take part in that programme. But it’s a great programme. I can’t really say enough good things about it.

BG: How are things for you now, Mount Nicholas? Obviously, a lot of work involved there. Things going okay?

JC: Yeah, and I think it’s pretty good. It’s been a pretty good climatic season for us over the last 12 months. It’s quite challenging financially as it is for all farmers in the country or all businesses, all people in New Zealand at the moment. But yeah, climatically, it’s been a good season for us.

BG: And if prices go down a bit further or the snow comes in or whatever the challenges are, you’ve got the magic triangle to fall back on, I guess.

JC: Yeah, that does help. It certainly does help. I wouldn’t advise this at all, Brian, to anyone, but you’re having a life, a near-death experience certainly puts things in perspective. When things are a bit turning a bit pear-shaped, you’ve still got your life and your health and your family. At the end of the day, you’re going to have challenges. That’s what I’ve really learned over the last 10 or 11 years.

Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in association with Farmers Weekly.

Hamish Murray: Building stronger on-farm teams by getting out of the way.

Key food security programme delivered in US-NZ partnership.

‘Mission New Zealand – Navigating Geopolitical Tensions and Climate Change as an Agri-based Economy’, was a week-long programme delivered by Rural Leaders in Christchurch.

Facilitated by Dr Scott Champion, the programme was designed to give a group of 25 visiting Gilman Scholarship alumni a deep dive into global food security.

Participants gained insights into the policies, technologies, and adaptation measures that aim to secure the New Zealand agricultural sector and reduce environmental impacts.

The programme was an opportunity to explore New Zealand’s innovation and initiatives towards food security. It included modules on global food security, trade, food and fibre value chains, a NZ Government perspective on food security, a Te Ao Māori perspective, food safety, precision agriculture, as well as presentations from supply chain, biosecurity, regulatory, and sustainability leaders.

For Rural Leaders the programme represented the strengthening of an important relationship between both enterprises, and more broadly, between the US and NZ.

Lisa Rogers, Rural Leaders’ CEO said, “We were pleased to be asked to host and deliver this Global Food Security focussed programme for the Benjamin A Gillman Scholarship from the US.

The week provided the opportunity to showcase NZ Food and Fibre’s innovative and entrepreneurial approach to food production.

With presenters to the group including politicians, officials and innovative producers, the group of scholars had an immersive week within our Food and Fibre sector.

The opportunity to hear external view points about our sector and its food production systems was as invaluable as it was refreshing.”

For the Benjamin A. Gilman International Scholarship Program and the US Department of State, ‘Mission New Zealand’ has been a valuable cross-pollination of ideas and knowledge sharing, for food security and for the platform it has provided for discussing some of the challenges both countries face.

Gilman Scholarship Alum Darrin Vander Plas – REX podcast.

One attending Gilman Scholarship alum, Darrin Vander Plas (pictured above), took time to chat to Dominic George and REX online about what he and his colleagues learned on their trip to NZ, his role with the US Department of Agriculture Farm Loan Program in Maui and his time helping farmers in The Gambia and Uganda.

Darrin Vander Plas, from the US Department of Agriculture, is one of these people who has ventured over and he explains further what the goal of the trip is as well as some of the highlights so far.

Vander Plas, who manages the USDA Farm Loan Program in Maui County, Hawaii, highlights the resilience of Kiwi farmers despite the absence of government subsidies.

Additionally, he discusses his experiences in The Gambia and Uganda, where he supported local farmers through various agricultural initiatives and his experiences during last year’s wildfires in Hawaii.

Lisa Rogers – Leadership Programmes and Pathways.

If we believe the Food and Fibre sector has a Leadership challenge versus a Productivity challenge, then developing our sector’s leadership capability needs to be a priority.

In this podcast, Lisa Rogers, CEO, Rural Leaders talks to Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor, Farmers Weekly about the recently released report ‘A Path to Realising Leadership Potential in Aotearoa NZ’s Food and Fibre Sector’, along with its leadership development framework, and the leadership programmes serving as key tools for building more and ever greater leaders for our country.

Listen to Lisa’s podcast here or read the transcript below.

Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I am Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, Bryan Gibson, and with me today is Lisa Rogers, Chief Executive of Rural Leaders. G’day Lisa, how’s it going?

Lisa Rogers, CEO, Rural Leaders
Great. Thanks, Bryan. It’s good to be here.

BG: Now, as we know, Rural Leaders is in the business of creating people who are primed to go into leadership roles. But recently, you’ve been involved in a big report on the state of leadership pathways in New Zealand is and how they might be improved. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

A new report that aims to help solve an old challenge.

LR: Yeah, sure. We’ve recently released a significant report in developing leaders in the Sector. It’s called a Path to Realising Leadership Potential in Aotearoa, New Zealand’s Food and Fibre Sector. We’re very proud of this piece of work that the authorship team has taken almost two years to bring together.

It was originally commissioned and supported by Food and Fibre CoVE – the Centre of Vocational Excellence. They commissioned Rural Leaders to conduct research into the state of leadership development in the sector and to also create a principles-based model towards leadership development. This report is now out. The report covers three main areas: Why we lead, how we lead, and how we are going to continue to grow leadership.

The idea is for this work to become a user guide, for want of a better word. And there is a framework that sits around it as well for people to be able to identify where they are on their leadership journey and to then look at what programmes and what a pathway might look like for their development, depending on where they are in their journey and their age and stage.

So, yeah, it’s a great piece of work.

BG: Obviously, when we think about leadership in the Food and Fibre sector, there are the likes of the Kellogg and Nuffield Programmes. There are other programmes out there, AgriWomen’s Development Trust, and there are various associate board member roles that various processes play. Do we have the infrastructure in place to succeed in building new leaders?

Leadership development programmes and pathways.

LR: I think there’s a great range of exemplars and programmes that are out there. The structure is the thing that’s been missing up until now. A lot of organisations and people have considered this over the years, and this is a foundational piece of work to be able to start creating an ecosystem system that we’re going to have.

It’s not going to necessarily be all about New Zealand Rural Leadership Trust. We want to be part of this, along with everyone else. So, what we’re wanting to do is get a great range of programmes that are there from early days or vocational type programmes. So, from first steps on their leadership development right through operations teams and into that strategic level of leadership as well, which traditionally, Kellogg and the Nuffield Scholarship have been in that later stage.

But we’re also developing and delivering new programmes as well. We’re very proud to be also involved in the Horticulture New Zealand Leadership Programme, which is in that operational space, and looking now at team leadership programme as well. Rural Leaders has got a lot of great programmes to be as exemplars of this leadership journey, but we also want to bring other organisations in to have their programmes there for delivery as well. They’ll obviously still belong to those organisations, but we want everyone to play in this space.

Horticulture New Zealand Leadership Programme, the Value Chain Programme and Engage.

BG: You mentioned the Horticulture New Zealand Leadership Programme, and of course, we know about Kellogg and Nuffield. What are some of the other programmes that Rural Leaders specifically has?

LR: Traditionally, we’re about leadership, and we still absolutely are. That’s our core purpose. But we are also increasingly moving into the capability space now and development of those leaders in the sector. We have the Value Chain Innovation Programme, which runs every year. It’s seven days going through to our iconic four big value chains.

It’s an amazing opportunity to do deep dives into the sheep and beef, the dairy, horticulture, and kiwi fruit industries, and understanding why they are such an important part of our sector, along with all the moving parts that go with that. There are always new changes, and that’s an incredible week with Professor Hamish Gow and Phil Morrison from down in Southland.

We also run a new programme called Engage, which is really starting to pick up a head of steam now. It started off as a joint venture with Lincoln University and Ministry for the Environment. It’s for people coming into this sector who have got great transferable skills but weren’t necessarily brought up in a farming or food and fibre environment. So, they have a three-day immersive programme with us, and we’re finding that that is becoming quite a go-to programme for us as well.

Rural Leaders is starting to build a real stable of programmes and become known as a leader development organisation more than anything else, which is so exciting.

BG: Obviously, the programmes that are out there and the support for people is a key aspect. But leadership is built in the workplace, isn’t it? In the relationships you have and the opportunities you’re given, maybe even when you’re just starting out in your career. We’ve mentioned the report. Are there other tools in the toolbox that can help workplace places develop their staff?

Rural Leaders provides tools for leadership development.

LR: Absolutely. So, the report is all about identifying that pathway. There’s a capability framework there. So, we want people to come in and have a look at this in a way that is accessible. So very shortly, we’re building a microsite, for want of a better word, so it’ll be mobile friendly.

It’s a way of having a look at where they are now on their journey. So, we assess, am I at the beginning of my leadership development? Have I been doing this for a while? Am I looking for a change? If I’ve been doing something for a while? And then actually ask a few more questions around that. And then this framework will give them some suggestions on programmes that they can be involved in now, some stuff they might like to look at in another year or two’s time, and then further out from there as well.

Again, it’s an independent assessment, so we’re not necessarily pushing them into all our programmes, although there’s some great opportunities there. But it might be that other organisations have got some great programmes around for them as well. And we certainly include the like of Muka Tangata as well and some of the WDC programmes that are out there – the Workforce Development Councils.

So, we’re also looking at how these can be micro-credentialed, so they give true value for the people who are undertaking them as well. We’re also looking at developing a high-performing teams programme. We see that as a real gap in the availability about being able to create an environment for thriving and high-performing teams.

BG: Identifying the people who have leadership potential and working with them is one thing. I guess Food and Fibre has often struggled to attract some of the talent to the sector from schools and that sort of thing; traditionally pushing people towards medicine, and law. How do we shift the dial there? Because the Food and Fibre sector is so important to New Zealand. It’s so big, in a sense. It really needs to have the best and brightest there, doesn’t it?

With good leadership, people stay.

LR: It sure does. When you think that there’s almost 360,000 people working in this sector now, and it’s worth over $55 billion a year in export income, it’s an incredibly important part of New Zealand’s economy. And up until now, one of the statistics that’s come out of this research is that the churn rate through the sector is something like 71% after three years. Now, that’s extraordinary. Even if you take into consideration seasonal workers, RSC workers coming into the country to work, particularly in horticulture, that’s just mind boggling to think that 71% of people are gone after three years.

The cost to the economy of that, for each time somebody turns over out of a job is just extraordinary. What we need to do is make sure that we can address this and have people who come into the sector and want to stay. To feel like they’ve got some path to grow and develop in there, and that there is a long-term view for them.

Now, it can be in all sorts of aspects of the sector. It doesn’t have to be necessarily a path towards farm ownership, because we want this report, and the framework, to apply to people working in the Food and Fibre service industries as well as on farm or on an orchard.

It’s as applicable to anybody who is an owner or an employer as it is to someone who’s a worker. We want everyone to be able to see themselves in here and look at this framework that we’re putting forward and say, this is where I see myself now, these are the things I’d like to think about developing myself, in particular, my leadership. Once we’ve got people who are feeling as though they have got a purpose and a pathway in front of them, we’re more likely to see a more settled and productive workforce sitting there. We see that this has got huge economic as well as social benefits for the sector.

The Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme has been developing leaders for the rural and agri-food sector since 1979.

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Episode Transcript

A strong connection to farming.

From Young Farmers to a Nuffield Scholarship.

Nuffield research still relevant 30 years later.

A career in leadership.

The most productive conversations are face-to-face.

Rural leadership pathways.

Applying for a Nuffield.

Episode Transcript

Sheep and beef farming now.

The outlook is positive.

The value of industry good to farmers.

The Nuffield experience.

Gaining confidence through leadership development.

Investing in yourself.

Episode Transcript

Lisa’s Journey and Passion for the Food and Fibre Sector

Genetic technologies and the Kellogg research report

Kellogg research process and key findings

Legislation and Global Considerations

The Kellogg Experience and Future Outlook

A Transformative Leadership Experience

Bringing a global perspective to New Zealand food and fibre.

Managing, leading, and stewardship.

A background into how a Māori Land Incorporation works.

Kaitiakitanga – guardianship/stewardship. Adopting the long term view.

Kellogg and Kaitiakitanga as a pathway to enduring prosperity.

Can you have alignment between Kaitiakitanga and propseprous business?

Three recommendations to include Kaitiakitana principles into business.

Kaitiakitanga - universal principles for a long term view.

The Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme.

The Missing Link: Community-Based Economies.

Small Farms: Big Impact.

Bridging Urban and Rural Food Systems.

A New Economic Framework.

A Path Forward: Empowering Communities, Supporting Small Farms.

The Netherlands’ loss, New Zealand’s gain.

LIC research into heat stress in cattle.

Kellogg research into genetics’ social licence to operate.

The Kellogg research insights.

Food security and farming systems – Netherlands vs New Zealand.

Connecting with the Kellogg network.

Well qualified to share insights on resilience.

Then out of that experience, I got told I was a resilient character for bouncing back from adversity, and I didn’t really think I was that particularly resilient, and I didn’t think I knew what I was talking about – talking about resilience to a group. I felt everybody faces adversity.

Thriving in the face of adversity.

Purpose, why, and connection.

Telling the resilience story.

Resilience in a time of rapid change.

A sense of purpose.

Kellogg and life on Mt. Nicholas Station.

A new report that aims to help solve an old challenge.

Leadership development programmes and pathways.

Horticulture New Zealand Leadership Programme, the Value Chain Programme and Engage.

Rural Leaders provides tools for leadership development.

With good leadership, people stay.

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