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Bryan Gibson, Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly.
You’re with Ideas That Grow, the Rural Leaders podcast. I’m Bryan Gibson, the Managing Editor of Farmers Weekly. This week on the show, we have the new Meat and Wool Chair for Federated Farmers and Marlborough Sheep and Beef Farmer, Richard Dawkins. Richard, how are you?

Richard Dawkins, Farmer, 2023 Kellogg Scholar:
Yeah, good. Thanks, Bryan. The sun’s threatening to shine here, so we’ll take that as a win.

BG: Yeah, being pretty wet down your way, hasn’t it?

RD: Yeah, absolutely. We recorded 138mls in 24 hours, which was a record for us since 1954, but certainly, none of the damage compared to over the hill.

Farming to suit your environment.

BG: You farm up behind Blenheim, and you’re the latest in a long line of people in your family who have farmed there.

RD: Yeah. We’re 30 kilometres southwest of Blenheim, up the Waihopai Valley, or the Avon Valley, just off the Waihopai. I’m the third generation on the land, and my children will be the fourth. My wife, Jess, and I came home a decade ago and since have taken over and have three children.

BG: Excellent. Can you just Can you tell us a little bit about your farming business?

RD: We’re 602 hectares. The livestock side of the business is a composite ewe flock. We’re about 60% sheep and 40% cattle. We also do Jersey bulls, service bulls for the dairy industry, and some Friesians, which are just a straight fattening proposition for the works.

Our motto here has always been, you farm to suit your environment. You don’t modify the environment, you modify your farm systems to suit. We start lambing next week, late July, and main weaning is in November, and we sell all the lambs at weaning.

Last year was a record for us, actually. We sold 96% of the lambs straight off mum at 43. 5kg’s. Composite ewe flock, Jersey Bulls, a few Friesians, but we also have 20% of the property in farm forestry and 135 hectares of viticulture.

BG: Quite a diverse operation you’ve got going.

RD: Yeah, you have to be these days, don’t you? My father said in the late ’80s, 65% of his income was from wool. We’re now down under 1%, so yeah, just need to diversify those income streams a bit.

BG: Now, you mentioned you came back to the farm about a decade ago. You grew up there, I guess. What did you do after school?

Seeing the world before farming.

RD: Jess and I spent significant time in Western Australia. Funnily enough, we were in a different industry. We spent a fair amount of time working in the mines in WA near Kalgoorlie, and Jess was further north in Karata. But then we spent time in the United Kingdom as well, and it was really interesting to see their farm systems. I did a bit of labouring on farms. I worked on a dairy farm, more of an indoor system over there, and did a harvest up in Norwich, drove a lot of tractors.

So, yeah, that was a good experience. Good experience in Australia as well, but really glad to be home now and setting the foundation for the future, I suppose. We’re certainly not planning on going anywhere.

BG: Many, many, New Zealanders in their 20s head off to see the world. In a farming sense, do you think it’s good for people to go off and see, say, the likes of how you did a harvest a Norwich or a dairy farm in the UK?

RD: I think it is, Bryan, but there’s opportunity costs to everything isn’t there. Coming home in my mid-20s and seeing fellows in their teens who were a bit more advanced than me and had left school and gone straight into farming. It took a fair bit of catching up, which was a bit of a wake-up call.

You spend your childhood on the farm, but boy, there’s a big difference between helping dad shift some sheep and doing the tailing and things and helping in the sharing shed versus actually running a farm business. It took some catching up.

That’s what’s been fantastic about Federated Farmers is getting those farmer networks and rapidly expanding your knowledge. But at the same time, look, learning other industries, living in other countries, that was really valuable too.

Building knowledge and leadership skills.

I’ll tell you one positive was when we did come home, we were so full of enthusiasm. We hit the ground running and haven’t stopped, to be honest. Whereas some of my friends who did leave school and go straight into Ag, some of them are just thinking it’s a big wide world out there. Maybe I could go and try something else. I mean, it’s up to the individual, isn’t it? But there’s pros and cons with everything.

BG: Yeah, I often think that we see a lot of exporters and processors take farmer shareholders into export markets to give them an idea of actually what it’s like there and how people buy their food and how chefs cook it, or various other things. I think that global view and getting a first-hand understanding about how the fruit of their labour here in New Zealand is used, it can be really helpful in understanding why certain things have to happen.

RD: Yeah, for sure. I was fortunate enough to go on the Silver Fern Farms and Market Tour last year. We went through China and Korea, South Korea of course. Like you say, fantastic perspectives and quite mind-blowing, to be honest.

BG: Now, you’re a relatively recent Kellogg scholar. You went through the programme just a couple of years ago?

The Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme experience.

RD: So 2023, Phase One, part of K49. The timing for me was perfect, to be honest, in that I’d done a lot of industry stuff by that point. I had a few connections and a reasonable understanding of the bigger picture. But look, to go into Kellogg, it just really supercharged that foundation I had.

Getting those cross-sector connections, people from all walks of life, and hearing those different perspectives as well was hugely valuable and empowering. I guess since I’ve just carried on that journey, I would find very well-invested, I must say.

BG: That network that you build and the people you meet is really important. Of course, another thing they do is you find out quite a lot about yourself, which is good to what you’re good at, what you perhaps need to invest time into improving.

RD: Yeah, look, self-awareness is just absolutely essential. That was a big thing that I took out of it. It can be very confronting, but I think you go in as a bit of an unpolished diamond, and you have those courageous conversations and have that self-awareness.

You may be smooth off some of those rough edges. But some of those things you need to embrace, too. I’ve recognised that. Hey, I’m pretty extreme in this area, and maybe I need to tone it down sometimes. But look, maybe that makes me the man for the job with certain tasks. So, embrace those things as well.

Lamb and ewe mortality, leadership, and learning.

BG: Totally. Now, of course, a big part of the Kellogg Programme is the report you write. You looked at mortality in lambs and ewes?

RD: Yeah. I called it ‘Addressing Mortality in New Zealand Lambing Systems’ because I didn’t want to just purely focus on the lambs. Mortality in ewes is a huge issue as well. The findings were quite interesting. I guess the major takeaways were there’s not actually strong data sets out there.

The actual extent and understanding of the issue is not particularly good as an industry. Probably the lowest hanging fruit for progress is simply body condition scoring and feeding.

On the farm here, we take it to the enth degree, and we lamb our triplets indoors to give them extra care and attention. But look, as an industry, I think getting those body condition scores up and getting those pasture covers up prior and post-lambing is where we’d see the biggest gains.

BG: Now, you talk about data. I guess in a lot of cases, what happens on the farm stays on the farm in some ways in terms of the snow rolls in or whatever down in the high country and losses that no one quantifies in some ways.

RD: Yeah. It’s a real catch-22, isn’t it? In that our strategic advantage, our point of difference is those outdoor lambing systems. It’s free range for sure. How do you balance the welfare aspect versus that strategic advantage? I think the absolute majority of New Zealand farmers and farm systems are geared towards that low input, medium fecundity type breeding.

We do the indoor lambing here because we’re a highly fecund composite ewe flock, and it’s pretty simple at the end of the day, isn’t it? A ewe’s got two teats, and when she’s spitting out three or four lambs, I don’t think it’s controversial to say she needs a bit more TLC.

BG: Yeah, totally. In the drive for efficiency, which has been excellent over the years in the sheep and beef sector, that’s something everyone keeps in mind, I think.

RD: Look, and these composite ewes are amazing. Those ewes that leave the shed with three lambs, their average weaning weights, the combined weight of their three lambs was 110 kilos. That was at 105 days of age. So three lambs, straight off mum to the works, that’s about the most efficient ewe in the country. They’re big ewes, they’re 80 kilos at mating. But when you’re weaning 110 kilos of lambs, it’s worth putting the effort in. I mean, that’s just 1% of the flock, Bryan. Certainly not every ewe, but it is very rewarding when you get to weaning and all your effort pays off.

BG: Your project obviously completed, submitted, but it seems to have been read by some of the organisations that matter in our sector.

RD: I won’t take credit for that, I suppose. But it’s great, really cool to see Beef + Lamb  New Zealand pick up a lamb survival module now. I was involved behind the scenes, just having those discussions and organising a few things, bit of a working group. I’ve had a few podcasts and also going to have workshops around the country just focusing on lamb survival. That was one of my key recommendations. So full credit to them. It’s great to see.

Federated Farmers Meat and Wool Chair and further study.

BG: Now, obviously, the Kellogg Programme is based around growing rural leaders in our sector. You’ve come up through Federated Farmers, and you’re the new Meat and  Wool Chair. So it looks like you’re taking the ball by the horns in terms of leadership roles.

RD: Like I said earlier, it really did turbocharge things. I did learn a lot, learnt a lot through the process, but I think the biggest thing it gave me was confidence. Like, look, I can go through 500 hours or whatever I invested in. I was part of those deep conversations. I understood everything, had a really good cohort, and it just gave me that confidence to push to the next level.

It made me realise, hey, you are ready for those leadership positions. But it really was a foundation. One of the biggest takeaways for me was it’s fantastic work by the Rural Leaders team. I’ve actually connected the Kellogg Programme through Lincoln and Massey, and actually you can achieve a Postgraduate Certificate in Commerce.

That actually gains you entry to a master’s-level programme. After the Kellogg Programme, I went on to studying a Master of Business, and that’s taken all of that stuff I learned through Kellogg to a whole other level. That’s a fantastic opportunity for anyone. If they’re considering it, I’d be happy to talk people through that process.

BG: That’s excellent. I didn’t know about that. How are things going with Feds? How are you enjoying being on the National Exec?

RD: Look, it has been an absolutely flat out first fortnight. I probably look a bit tired at the moment. AGM and conference, followed by a lot of conversations. Obviously, a lot of media. We’ve had our oral submission to the select committee, and then on to the Silver Fern Farms Conference and all of the governance work that goes on in the background, the advocacy, the exciting stuff, the fun stuff.

But hey, this is a fantastic organisation. You have to govern as well. So, yeah, it’s been absolutely completely flat out. I think that may slow down a little bit, but with advocacy, the work never ends, and then we’ll be full steam ahead, trying to achieve what we want to achieve for not only the meat and wool council, but obviously every member too.

BG: It’s a big job and a big responsibility being the voice of our farming sector to not only the Beehive, but also the wider population of New Zealand, I guess, that you really are the window into that world.

Putting leadership development into practice.

RD: Yeah, you absolutely are. Look, it is a real privilege. When you come under a bit of pressure and you’re finally in this position, I guess your natural style comes out, shines. I’ve just realised that I’m more of a collaborator and a facilitator of these discussions. I don’t have a monopoly on good ideas. I have a fantastic council behind me, 24 men and women who volunteer their time and seven on the executive.

I think you need a bit of courage. Courage takes many forms. It’s putting a line in the sand and saying, this is not good enough, it needs to change. You probably saw that with the oral submission, the bill as it stands, isn’t fit for purpose. But courage is also saying, hey, I don’t know everything. Can I facilitate this discussion? Let’s get four or five people in a room and work out the pathway forward.

I mean, you’re never always going to agree, but at least have that talking to a friend or someone close to you and saying, This needs to change, that needs to change. We need to tidy up this area or that area. Actually, one thing I’m struggling with, which takes a bit of courage, is just learning to delegate. As a farmer, you see a problem, you want to go and fix it. But takes a bit of courage to say, Hey, I’ve got a bit much going on, or, You’re actually better at this than me, so could you please take care of it?

Again, we’ve got this council full of enthusiasm. So, yeah, quite often they’re willing to take up that mantle. And look, it’s just hugely appreciated these people volunteering their time, not for me, but for the whole sector.

BG: If someone’s out there thinking about developing their leadership skills to maybe looking at governance or just their own personal growth, the Kellogg Programme, something you’d recommend?

Get involved, be part of the bigger conversations.

RD: Look, it is, but I think it’s all about timing. I would really I encourage people to do a bit of that local provincial, maybe it’s volunteering any leadership position, and just do a bit of that.

Be part of those bigger conversations, those sector-wide conversations. Join your Federated Farmers and get involved. Join your Beef + Lamb New Zealand, various councils or working groups they have, or your rural advisory groups, things like that. Just get a bit of experience on that side of things, then go for Kellogg.

I think if you were just starting your leadership journey, you might not get as much out of Kellogg as you potentially could. But once you’ve done that foundation work, it’s absolutely fantastic.

BG: Thanks for listening to Ideas That Grow, a Rural Leaders podcast presented in Association with Farmers Weekly.

For more information on Rural Leaders, visit the pages for Nuffield New Zealand Farming Scholarships, the Kellogg Rural Leadership Programme, the HortNZ Leadership Programme, the Engage Programme, or the Value Chain Innovation Programme.